What convinced you Satan is real?
- Thread starter Henry Chinaski
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Not sure if this was already posted, but online dating and seeing people with profiles who are literally Satanists or occultists or witches, and its ALWAYS some "lifestyle" associated with stereotypes you would expect. Definitely makes you think.
Honestly, Vigilant Citizen is what convinced me. The sheer amount of Satanic/demonic symbolism in our world is actually overwhelming. That site alone convinced my boss that there is something gravely wrong with popular culture.
I also read a book called Satan Prince of This World by William Guy Carr. He outlines how there is a Synagogue of Satan, a group of people infiltrating/masquerading as Jews (likely them specifically for additional irony/inversion after reading the Old Testament), Freemasons, and Christians and how they have taken over and shape the world.
I for one will be very excited when the evil are brought down and have to face justice in the very near future.
Proverbs 11:10 "When the righteous prosper, the city rejoices; when the wicked perish, there are shouts of joy."
realtylerparker
Pigeon
I came much closer to God this year, around the same time I was reading about the miserable applications of communism and other corners of history that we aren't taught in American public schools. The fact that societies can and have been built upon a foundation of lies which then turn your daily life into Hell on earth convinced me of what I had briefly read concerning the connection between Logos and God. This was the first key, for if God is Logos then satan is the lie. I started reading The Bible at this point. The connection was made clear during the anti-white/male/christian/western civilization riots and the China Plague hysteria. So in my heart I believed that satan was a metaphysical and necessary antithesis to God, but seeing to what ends people will go for power... so much that they will act out the lies of the BLM crusade and crush all those that dare stand up for truth was all that I needed to know that satan is real in our day to day life.
My faith is quite young and I would have only really considered myself a Christian for just over a year or so. I tend to over analyze things and I like to get bogged down in games of logic. So my reasoning was that If I believe that God is clearly real, therefore the Bible is correct. If the bible is correct, therefore Satan must be real. Once I got to that point, just looking at some of the things that go on in the world made it more clear to me. And to echo what Dr. Howard says above, the sheer revulsion some act with towards Christians.
I'm not sure if my logical approach described above is good or not, but it helped me get over my Agnostic brain fog and become closer with Christ, so I guess it was a net positive.
I'm not sure if my logical approach described above is good or not, but it helped me get over my Agnostic brain fog and become closer with Christ, so I guess it was a net positive.
Mike_Key
Woodpecker
JackinMelbourne is banned but his story resonates with me ... I have other stories here on this thread, but in addition, I too once saw a visual of something evil and demonic but in video format and briefly. I may have spent a smidgen of time looking for the cause but then it was too creepy and I moved on.
My true reason for posting today, I'm involved currently in a situation where I've believed something for 13-15 years. I've presented this idea to one relevant person of the story but they deny all aspects of said Idea/Story.
The reason that I waited 13 to 15 years to address the issue is because it was slowly building, I didn't have all the pieces. It came to an impasse or fullness when I had to decide if I would travel, spend money and generally go somewhere that I didn't want to visit. I wasn't willing to risk myself and resources for a place and time that I believed was entangled with a horrible Idea/Story.
The central person to the story that I confronted is vehemently denouncing said Idea/Story. So provided that after 3 to 4 discussions on the matter, provided that I believe this central character to the Story - what was I hearing and/or seeing all those years?
You know how occasionally you hear a ghost story where a physical item was moved or something was disturbed inexplicably? I can only wonder if what I believe I heard and saw (over the years, finally piecing together fully after 13 years) was nothing but a delicately craft and patient spiritual warfare incident (a ghost story) levelled against me from Satan himself (or something in the ranks).
I've started as of yesterday a 10 day fast (fast and pray is how I refer to it).
I'm on day two and have already had about 4 prayer sessions ... about 3 fasting sessions, intertwined, of course. Edit: My method is denying something (food or leisure activities) but replacing it during that time or times with prayer/reading/worship music.
If anyone else has ever experienced this, feel free to share.
John 3:16
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Mike_Key
Woodpecker
I thought I'd place this entry here as opposed to the "Finished Book" thread. I recently read the entirety of this great book.
Demonic Foes: My Twenty-Five Years as a Psychiatrist Investigating Possessions, Diabolic Attacks, and the Paranormal Hardcover – October 6, 2020
by Richard Gallagher M.D. (Author)
https://www.harpercollins.com/products/demonic-foes-richard-gallagher?variant=32116636844066
The book is written from a Catholic perspective as the author is a Catholic lay person and a Priest initially hired him to be a skeptic outside observer consulting only on mental health assessments and issues. It's a nice book that follows a great path of explaining rather quickly the intensity of deliverance/exorcism. At the same time it warns people of the many caveats and mental health issues that are encountered and that should never be mistaken for the need of deliverance/exorcism. "I had certainly encountered enough genuine cases of possession and oppression ... to tell the difference between people suffering from possessions or oppressions and people who were medically or psychiatrically impaired." pg. 78
Not being Catholic myself I did have one critique, among a few, when the author mentioned a bothersome practice (actually something verbally or physically egregious, I can't recall) displayed or manifested by a demon(s). The author casually mentions that when this was described to an outside observer not present for the deliverance/exorcism - that person said "why didn't you (The Priest) command it to stop?". I suppose the advising person could have been a stronger Catholic, but my sense was that maybe it was a person of a different faith - Baptist, Evangelical, Protestant or Orthodox. If so, it would have been great to see that contrast. If a multidisciplinary approach works well with Catholics, Medical personnel and exorcism - let's apply that multidisciplinary aspect to faiths coming together to cast out demons.
To elaborate a smidgen more, I once heard a non-Catholic, actually a Protestant, say that while Catholics do cast out demons, they seem to belabor the event - they seem to "proceed timidly, play with demons and/or they stall" is how it is often perceived. The point being that Evangelicals or Protestants that take up the practice/vocation of Deliverance ministry don't stall with demons prior to casting them out ... they merely cast them out and move on. The recipe I hear is as follows - prep work, bible readings, prayer, fasting and prayer, resisting the devil, a personal survey, understanding personal history, renouncing, denouncing, session 1, 2, 3; day 1, 2, 3 and the demons are weakened at which point they are easily cast out. Basically, that it should not take 6 months. I think this is where different faiths that agree, at least, on the 3 fundamental classic points of Christianity can thrive and excel at deliverance/exorcisms. But what do I know, I merely listen, I'm a listener. : )
In the book, for those of you that are Protestant you'll hear an opposite critique that we Protestants are "liberal" in our practice of Deliverance because there is no set canon or order of prayers. I'm not in Deliverance ministry but I can only imagine that ministers cover all necessary prayers ultimately - at the beginning, mid-way and definitely by the end of a given session. I.e. if a helper is being physically attacked, stop, address the side issue of a physical attack and then proceed.
There are many great things about this book if you have an interest. In reading it you learn about how God protects all of us, because we truly are like children. We don't know the prayers to pray sometimes, we don't know the many bible stories that cite demons, we don't discern and in fact demons are watching us; "Some realm is paying attention to all of us, ...". pg. 245 Because of this alone, we should be thankful everyday.
And Jesus Christ of Nazareth said:
Luke 10:20
"However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."
Luke 10:18-20
18 So He told them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy. Nothing will harm you. 20Nevertheless, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”
I'd definitely give this book a high rating of 9.5 out of 10.
One last quote:
"Father Jacques had previously instructed me how evil spirits can affect our own senses and material reality, which makes it difficult, if not impossible, to tell the difference at times between what's real and what isn't." pg 62
We should pray for spiritual gifts, at minimum to discern spirits:
1 Cor. 12:7-11
"7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines."
Cheers
John 3:16
Demonic Foes: My Twenty-Five Years as a Psychiatrist Investigating Possessions, Diabolic Attacks, and the Paranormal Hardcover – October 6, 2020
by Richard Gallagher M.D. (Author)
https://www.harpercollins.com/products/demonic-foes-richard-gallagher?variant=32116636844066
The book is written from a Catholic perspective as the author is a Catholic lay person and a Priest initially hired him to be a skeptic outside observer consulting only on mental health assessments and issues. It's a nice book that follows a great path of explaining rather quickly the intensity of deliverance/exorcism. At the same time it warns people of the many caveats and mental health issues that are encountered and that should never be mistaken for the need of deliverance/exorcism. "I had certainly encountered enough genuine cases of possession and oppression ... to tell the difference between people suffering from possessions or oppressions and people who were medically or psychiatrically impaired." pg. 78
Not being Catholic myself I did have one critique, among a few, when the author mentioned a bothersome practice (actually something verbally or physically egregious, I can't recall) displayed or manifested by a demon(s). The author casually mentions that when this was described to an outside observer not present for the deliverance/exorcism - that person said "why didn't you (The Priest) command it to stop?". I suppose the advising person could have been a stronger Catholic, but my sense was that maybe it was a person of a different faith - Baptist, Evangelical, Protestant or Orthodox. If so, it would have been great to see that contrast. If a multidisciplinary approach works well with Catholics, Medical personnel and exorcism - let's apply that multidisciplinary aspect to faiths coming together to cast out demons.
To elaborate a smidgen more, I once heard a non-Catholic, actually a Protestant, say that while Catholics do cast out demons, they seem to belabor the event - they seem to "proceed timidly, play with demons and/or they stall" is how it is often perceived. The point being that Evangelicals or Protestants that take up the practice/vocation of Deliverance ministry don't stall with demons prior to casting them out ... they merely cast them out and move on. The recipe I hear is as follows - prep work, bible readings, prayer, fasting and prayer, resisting the devil, a personal survey, understanding personal history, renouncing, denouncing, session 1, 2, 3; day 1, 2, 3 and the demons are weakened at which point they are easily cast out. Basically, that it should not take 6 months. I think this is where different faiths that agree, at least, on the 3 fundamental classic points of Christianity can thrive and excel at deliverance/exorcisms. But what do I know, I merely listen, I'm a listener. : )
In the book, for those of you that are Protestant you'll hear an opposite critique that we Protestants are "liberal" in our practice of Deliverance because there is no set canon or order of prayers. I'm not in Deliverance ministry but I can only imagine that ministers cover all necessary prayers ultimately - at the beginning, mid-way and definitely by the end of a given session. I.e. if a helper is being physically attacked, stop, address the side issue of a physical attack and then proceed.
There are many great things about this book if you have an interest. In reading it you learn about how God protects all of us, because we truly are like children. We don't know the prayers to pray sometimes, we don't know the many bible stories that cite demons, we don't discern and in fact demons are watching us; "Some realm is paying attention to all of us, ...". pg. 245 Because of this alone, we should be thankful everyday.
And Jesus Christ of Nazareth said:
Luke 10:20
"However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."
Luke 10:18-20
18 So He told them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy. Nothing will harm you. 20Nevertheless, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”
I'd definitely give this book a high rating of 9.5 out of 10.
One last quote:
"Father Jacques had previously instructed me how evil spirits can affect our own senses and material reality, which makes it difficult, if not impossible, to tell the difference at times between what's real and what isn't." pg 62
We should pray for spiritual gifts, at minimum to discern spirits:
1 Cor. 12:7-11
"7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines."
Cheers
John 3:16
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Mark-David
Pigeon
Jeffrey Burton Russell's series of books on the Devil is an excellent tour de force on the philosophical, cultural, and spiritual case for believing that Satan exists. Radical evil is everywhere.
If you are a Christian, you have to believe in Satan. Personally, the very real prospect of demons is displayed in the exorcisms of the Catholic Church. Satan and his demons do not often outright posess a person, but when they do they do it in a quite scary way. Also, the more devout you are, the more you realize that there are malevolent forces all around. Think of temptation. Sometimes there are these thoughts that really seem to come from outside of me that want me to blaspheme against God and the Virgin Mary e.g. The Fallen One is best banished by praying, I find. Just my two cents. Have a nice day.
MovingForward2050
Pelican
I am in the Philippines, and recently leased a large house, to the delight of my Filipina. She and her girls finally have elbow room to live, which is so nice. We were far too cramped in the apartment where we had lived. But when I would look at the house she wanted, which was uninhabited, I sensed a sadness or a darkness about it. I don't know if I would have said evil, at least at the time. Well, before we moved in, she had a lay member of the local Catholic Church come to bless our future home. This man took the task very seriously and blessed each floor and room, while using a censer, and had essentially a prayer meeting and scripture recital.
After that the place just felt lighter and brighter to me, and the sense of darkness lifted. We moved in soon after and things were fine and I felt comfortable there. But then a few months ago something disturbing happened. It was around 11pm at night and I was checking on the grounds before I went to bed. We have a very high and imposing concrete wall around the entire property, with an old school iron gate which I love. I was at the far edge of our driveway and around thirty feet from the gate and front wall area when I noticed a strange wind. It was causing the nearest palm trees across the street to strongly sway, but not those behind them by only a few feet. And then this wind seemed to come down the narrow street that runs in front of my home. I sensed something coming, and then a loud explosion of wind seemed to attack the main area of wall by my front gate, and I seemed to sense something trying to force it's way onto my property, but it found that it could not enter. I felt a frustration because I definitely sensed something was going on right before me, but I did not have the spiritual eyes to actually view it. But I felt it. And in fact what I felt was fairly strong fear, and because of that, I stayed put where I was standing, instead of going right up to the front gate to get a better look. It was all over within about thirty seconds or less, but left me with a strong impression of bad spirits being walled out by the blessing on my house.
In restrospect, I question what actually happened to me, due to the nature of our secular culture, and I admit that I did not see anything that was obviously supernatural. But in terms of what I experienced at an emotional/spiritual level, it was a surprisingly and disturbingly powerful experience. This building actually started off as a pool house of the next door mansion, and was later converted into a three story building. It towers over the surrounding areas. And it was supposedly a training school for a few years, for young Filipina women who were headed overseas to be menial workers. And as for the land, who knows what might have happened on this patch of land over the years, considering the many massacres, rapes and rebellions which happened over the centuries here.
After that the place just felt lighter and brighter to me, and the sense of darkness lifted. We moved in soon after and things were fine and I felt comfortable there. But then a few months ago something disturbing happened. It was around 11pm at night and I was checking on the grounds before I went to bed. We have a very high and imposing concrete wall around the entire property, with an old school iron gate which I love. I was at the far edge of our driveway and around thirty feet from the gate and front wall area when I noticed a strange wind. It was causing the nearest palm trees across the street to strongly sway, but not those behind them by only a few feet. And then this wind seemed to come down the narrow street that runs in front of my home. I sensed something coming, and then a loud explosion of wind seemed to attack the main area of wall by my front gate, and I seemed to sense something trying to force it's way onto my property, but it found that it could not enter. I felt a frustration because I definitely sensed something was going on right before me, but I did not have the spiritual eyes to actually view it. But I felt it. And in fact what I felt was fairly strong fear, and because of that, I stayed put where I was standing, instead of going right up to the front gate to get a better look. It was all over within about thirty seconds or less, but left me with a strong impression of bad spirits being walled out by the blessing on my house.
In restrospect, I question what actually happened to me, due to the nature of our secular culture, and I admit that I did not see anything that was obviously supernatural. But in terms of what I experienced at an emotional/spiritual level, it was a surprisingly and disturbingly powerful experience. This building actually started off as a pool house of the next door mansion, and was later converted into a three story building. It towers over the surrounding areas. And it was supposedly a training school for a few years, for young Filipina women who were headed overseas to be menial workers. And as for the land, who knows what might have happened on this patch of land over the years, considering the many massacres, rapes and rebellions which happened over the centuries here.
I'm sorry if this doesn't pertain to the exact topic of this thread, but it does have to do with satanism. Something strange is happening, and I don't know where else to go. This forum is the first place I thought of. This is my first post.
My wife and I are currently renting a home out in the country, where we are practicing small scale agriculture and growing our small family at the same time. We currently have a 6-month-old son, and we plan on having more babies in the near future.
I'm a very busy man, and I work pretty much everyday. I have a Monday through Friday day job as a plumber, I do side jobs of plumbing, electric and landscaping, and on weekends I go 5 hours out of town to fix up an old house that my wife and I recently bought.
Recently, my wife came to me with concerns about our neighbors. First, let me give you a brief rundown of who's in the house next door. I will not use names, only euphemisms. They are: the husband, the wife, the aunt, the daughter, the daughter's boyfriend, and the grandmother. So we have six characters at play here.
The husband and wife, on the surface, seem like normal country people. They have two horses, and three dogs. They grow food in their backyard. They have a motorcycle. They have always been pleasant when they have spoken to us. They look to be in their late forties to mid fifties, in terms of age.
The aunt is a sprightly older woman, looking to be in her late 40s or early 50s. She claims that she was unable to have children due to a botched appendectomy which did damage to her reproductive tract. She showed my wife a large vertical scar on her stomach to attest to this. She technically doesn't live in the house, but she lives about an hour away and she visits fairly frequently.
The granddaughter is in her 20s, somewhat fat, and dresses like a goth feminist. Black clothing, crazy hair dye, skull and bones, etc. According to the grandmother, the granddaughter practices witchcraft. We have never seen the boyfriend in person, but apparently he lives in the basement, and they have pictures of them together from when they were younger.
The grandmother is an older woman in her 70s. I am not a superficial person, so I feel weird saying this - but she looks like a witch. She looks like the sort of person that they would hire to play a witch in a children's movie. She has a big, crooked nose that takes up most of her face, and squinty witch eyes. I know this might sound weird, and I have trouble even taking myself seriously as I write this. But I can't think of any other way to describe her.
I'm not sure exactly how to tell this story. I guess I'll start chronologically. On Sunday, June 27th, when I was out working on the house that we bought, I received a text from my wife. She said that she had concerns about our neighbors and that she couldn't wait to leave the house. She also seemed like she was fearful and upset.
I called her immediately, and she began to explain some things to me. First, I want to give you a little bit of background on me and my wife. We're both devout Christians, but my wife has recently had an explosion of faith and Christianity.
She has become a creationist, whereas I am not (I could be convinced, and I'm not against creationism; I'm just not sure yet). We haven't been to church in a while because my church closed, and they are only reopening now on the Sunday of July 4th (my church is lame, I know. We are moving soon, so we will be getting a new one).
My wife is a very emotional and excitable person, and I'm usually the one who has to calm her down and be logical. We have a very good dynamic. She is extremely traditional and submissive. She readily embraces her Biblical role. We have a very good marriage.
When I called her, it was with the intention of listening to her concerns and probably calming her down. However, upon hearing what she said, I became increasingly concerned myself. Like I said, I'm the logical one. I'm the one who calms her down when she gets emotional or excited. So if we both have convergent ideas about this subject matter, It means that we both reached the same conclusion from different starting points.
As I mentioned earlier, the grandmother said that the granddaughter practices witchcraft. She said this in a way that indicated that it was accepted by the family (and possibly that other family members engage in it as well). Being a logical and reasonable person, I thought back to some of my experiences at college. I actually had a friend who converted to satanism at a death metal concert with her boyfriend.
The satanists I knew in college were not serious. They were not about to abduct a child. They were not about to sacrifice an animal. They were not about to engage in anything like that. They were the type of satanists who are really more like atheists or neopagans, casting "spells" and engaging in theatrical rituals whenever they were drunk enough to think that it would be fun.
I don't want to belabor the point, but I really want everyone to understand that I am a skeptic whereas my wife is a "leap of faith" type of person. My wife is revelatory, whereas I am methodical and logical. I came at this from the view of a skeptic. I approached this situation ready to explain to my wife that most "witchcraft practitioners" were harmless, like the stupid kids I knew in college.
Sorry for the long intro, but I felt it was necessary. Anyway, this is what she told me:
Over the course of the past couple of weeks, the aunt has begun approaching my wife on a regular basis and inviting her over to the house. My wife is an extremely kind and empathetic person, and we moved out to the country so that we could engage in a culture of neighborliness. With this in mind, my wife is the perfect person to be approached by a lonely old woman in the country.
My wife loves animals, and she loves old people. She thinks that they are cute. On paper, this situation is perfect. It's a cute little family out in the country that wants to have her over for dinner, wants to teach her how to sew, and wants to help her with her new baby. My wife is extremely open to these kinds of situations. That's part of the reason we came out to the country.
However, upon beginning to accept these invitations, my wife started to get bad vibes. I'm not the sort of person who understands terms like "vibes." I'm kind of autistic about this stuff. This is part of why my wife and I are such a good team. We complement one another.
Let's start with the grandmother. In addition to looking like a witch, her behavior is odd. In particular, her behavior is odd when dealing with our baby. She uses strange phrases, such as "you look tasty," when referring to our baby. One time, my wife left him with her for just a moment while she ran back to our house to grab a diaper. He was crying when she got back, and he is normally a very happy baby.
That same time, when my wife left him alone with her for a moment, she said that the grandmothers reaction was strange. It was almost as if she was trying to "play it cool," trying to contain her excitement at the thought of being left alone with the child. My wife also said that the grandmother reacted strangely during a diaper change, as if she was resisting a desire to gaze at my son's naked genitalia.
These behaviors, when taken individually, are no cause for concern. But taken together, I guess that's what adds up to a "bad vibe." Still, however, I'm a skeptic. I remained skeptical, at this point in my wife's description of events. However, I continued exploring by asking my wife questions and processing the information contained within her responses.
First off, there are the dogs on the property. My wife worked as a veterinarian for several years. She is familiar with many different types of animals, and has had relationships with a variety of dogs. She's very familiar with signs of abuse. All of these dogs look like death, they all look much older than they actually are, and they all look like they've been through hell.
Occasionally, I've heard sharp yelling directed at the dogs coming from the house. My wife confirmed this recently. During one of her visits, my wife had walked in the house before the grandmother realized that she was present. This was a candid moment, where the grandmother did not know that she was being watched.
At one of the dogs, she yelled something along the lines of "shut up, or I'll take a whip and ctack your ass!" It was a very specific threat, and The harsh nature of her scream was completely uncharacteristic when compared with the whole "sweet old lady" vibe that she had been trying to cultivate with my wife.
My wife made her presence known, and the grandmother was visibly startled. She was embarrassed. She quickly attempted to explain herself, saying that she was "trying to get the dogs in order," or something like that. My wife brushed it aside and try to tactfully avoid an awkward situation.
So now we have a creepy old "witch" lady who screams at her dogs when nobody's looking, but then pretends to be a sweet old lady when my wife is around. She has a granddaughter who openly practices witchcraft, and they have three hellhounds who look like they've been abused. I feel like I've seen other dogs at the house as well, as if animals may have come and gone. I can't confirm. It's a weird house.
Speaking of the house, it's dingy. It's cluttered. It's labyrinthine. There are pictures of horses everywhere, sculptures of horses, figurines of horses; The whole house is covered in horses. They own two horses, which they keep on a couple of acres of land across the street. Like the dogs, the horses seem to have personality issues. They are not like other horses that my wife has encountered, and she has encountered many (including horses that have been injured, large horses, dangerous horses, etc).
Now, I want to focus on the behavior of the aunt. The aunt is the main instigator in terms of getting my wife to come over to the house. She texts my wife frequently, sometimes just sending emojis or other random things to keep the conversation going. However, and this is important - she does not knock on the door when I am present. All of these efforts take place in the absence of me, the husband and father.
It's easy to know when I'm not home, because we only have one car. If the car isn't there, I'm not home. If the car is there, I'm home. I park on the side of the house that is clearly visible to them, so they would easily know if I was home just by looking out of their window.
In addition to encouraging my wife to visit the house so that the grandmother can play with the baby, she also asks questions. She asks questions about the layout of the house, about where the bedrooms are located. She asks questions about my wife's family, about where they are located. She asks the sort of questions that would be useful to somebody who was trying to kidnap a child. Like I said, when taken individually, none of these things are suspicious. I'm trying to paint a whole picture here, and the whole is more than the sum of its parts.
Now let's talk about the wife. The wife also asks questions. When my wife is outside working on the farm without the baby present, she will ask where the baby is. She doesn't ask "oh, now, where is that cute little baby of yours?" It's more to-the-point. Like: "Where's the baby? Oh, he's in the bedroom sleeping? Okay."
So now we've got the wife and the aunt asking questions that, when taking together, would give somebody the information of where the baby is when he is unattended and what the layout of the house is like.
I'm going to return to that grandmother again, because there was one more comment that really got me thinking. At one point, the grandmother very briefly and casually told my wife about the loss of her 5-year-old child. This is a woman in her 70's, so if she lost her child when he was five, this would have occurred sometime between 1975 and 1990.
When she first mentioned it, It was somewhat ambiguous. She said "I lost my little boy when he was 5 years old." Upon hearing this, you would assume that the boy died. Perhaps he got sick, or maybe he drowned or had some other sort of accident.
She proceeded to sniffle a bit, and put her face into a frown for a moment. My wife described this display of emotion as "fake." She then continued the story: "yes, I just turned away for a second, and when I looked back he was gone." She sniffled for a few more moments, and then immediately shifted back to normal. She never spoke about it again.
So there's a few things to look at here. First of all, she made it clear that her 5 year old son was kidnapped. It was a brief story, containing very little extra information. There was no description of search efforts, no painful reflection. Just a brief and casual comment about how kids, well... sometimes they just go missing. And it's sad - see me snivelling? See me pouting? Ok, I'm done now. Let's go back to talking about normal things.
That whole interaction struck me as odd. I wasn't present, and I've never spoken to the grandmother. I've only seen a brief video of her, which my wife recorded on Snapchat. So I can't comment on her body language, or If her emotions were "fake." I do trust my wife, and I believe that she is good at reading people. She's definitely good with animals.
In order to test these people a little bit, my wife dropped a couple of Christian religious comments. The grandmother was visibly uncomfortable when Christianity was mentioned, and the aunt had an interesting comment. When my wife mentioned it was hard to find God-fearing people, she said "I don't fear God, but I know I wouldn't be here without Him."
Like I said, when taken individually, none of these things mean much of anything. But when taken together, it seems like they are adding up to something strange. I'll give a brief rundown, one more time:
1) Witchcraft openly practiced by at least one member of the household, and is supported by other members of household. Visible discomfort when Christianity is referenced.
2) Obsession with baby. Odd comments about baby. Insistence on visiting the house. Persistent invitations. However, none of this occurs when husband is present. Targeting the weaker vessel?
3) Strange animals, which seem like they have been abused (according to my wife, who is extensive experience dealing with animals who have been injured, animals who are sick, etc).
4) Bipolar behavioral duality (screeching at dogs with oddly specific threats, and then switching to "sweet old lady" mode). Acting "too nice." Awkward situations. "Hansel and Gretel" effect (feeling like one is being lured in with kindness and food).
5) The granddaughter bragged about the fact that their parakeet yelled "go fuck yourself" when a priest entered the house. Apparently, this parakeet doesn't normally say that. It normally only says "thank you" and "I love you." I'm not sure if it's a true story, but regardless, it's weird that the granddaughter bragged about it. The other family members chuckled along when she told the story.
6) Inquiries about the layout of the house and the location of the baby when unattended.
7) Casual mention of the fact that the grandmother had a child who was kidnapped. "Fake" emotions. No follow-up story.
8) Proximity to Washington DC. This may or may not be relevant, but we live within an hour of Washington DC. Unfortunately, DC is definitely a hub of child trafficking. There may be a monetary incentive for those who engage in trafficking.
In conclusion, my wife and I are concerned. We don't want to overreact, and we don't want to be superstitious. Right now, we just have our guard up. We will be locking our doors at all times and we cannot leave him unattended, even if it's just for a moment when he is sleeping and my wife is working outside.
We won't be here for much longer, and we've decided that we are going to lie to the neighbors and tell them that we will be here for much longer than we actually will. This will eliminate any sense of urgency, If they are actually planning something. We also have guns, if anybody tries to break in.
Please let us know what you think, or if you've experienced anything similar. Thank you, and God bless you all!
My wife and I are currently renting a home out in the country, where we are practicing small scale agriculture and growing our small family at the same time. We currently have a 6-month-old son, and we plan on having more babies in the near future.
I'm a very busy man, and I work pretty much everyday. I have a Monday through Friday day job as a plumber, I do side jobs of plumbing, electric and landscaping, and on weekends I go 5 hours out of town to fix up an old house that my wife and I recently bought.
Recently, my wife came to me with concerns about our neighbors. First, let me give you a brief rundown of who's in the house next door. I will not use names, only euphemisms. They are: the husband, the wife, the aunt, the daughter, the daughter's boyfriend, and the grandmother. So we have six characters at play here.
The husband and wife, on the surface, seem like normal country people. They have two horses, and three dogs. They grow food in their backyard. They have a motorcycle. They have always been pleasant when they have spoken to us. They look to be in their late forties to mid fifties, in terms of age.
The aunt is a sprightly older woman, looking to be in her late 40s or early 50s. She claims that she was unable to have children due to a botched appendectomy which did damage to her reproductive tract. She showed my wife a large vertical scar on her stomach to attest to this. She technically doesn't live in the house, but she lives about an hour away and she visits fairly frequently.
The granddaughter is in her 20s, somewhat fat, and dresses like a goth feminist. Black clothing, crazy hair dye, skull and bones, etc. According to the grandmother, the granddaughter practices witchcraft. We have never seen the boyfriend in person, but apparently he lives in the basement, and they have pictures of them together from when they were younger.
The grandmother is an older woman in her 70s. I am not a superficial person, so I feel weird saying this - but she looks like a witch. She looks like the sort of person that they would hire to play a witch in a children's movie. She has a big, crooked nose that takes up most of her face, and squinty witch eyes. I know this might sound weird, and I have trouble even taking myself seriously as I write this. But I can't think of any other way to describe her.
I'm not sure exactly how to tell this story. I guess I'll start chronologically. On Sunday, June 27th, when I was out working on the house that we bought, I received a text from my wife. She said that she had concerns about our neighbors and that she couldn't wait to leave the house. She also seemed like she was fearful and upset.
I called her immediately, and she began to explain some things to me. First, I want to give you a little bit of background on me and my wife. We're both devout Christians, but my wife has recently had an explosion of faith and Christianity.
She has become a creationist, whereas I am not (I could be convinced, and I'm not against creationism; I'm just not sure yet). We haven't been to church in a while because my church closed, and they are only reopening now on the Sunday of July 4th (my church is lame, I know. We are moving soon, so we will be getting a new one).
My wife is a very emotional and excitable person, and I'm usually the one who has to calm her down and be logical. We have a very good dynamic. She is extremely traditional and submissive. She readily embraces her Biblical role. We have a very good marriage.
When I called her, it was with the intention of listening to her concerns and probably calming her down. However, upon hearing what she said, I became increasingly concerned myself. Like I said, I'm the logical one. I'm the one who calms her down when she gets emotional or excited. So if we both have convergent ideas about this subject matter, It means that we both reached the same conclusion from different starting points.
As I mentioned earlier, the grandmother said that the granddaughter practices witchcraft. She said this in a way that indicated that it was accepted by the family (and possibly that other family members engage in it as well). Being a logical and reasonable person, I thought back to some of my experiences at college. I actually had a friend who converted to satanism at a death metal concert with her boyfriend.
The satanists I knew in college were not serious. They were not about to abduct a child. They were not about to sacrifice an animal. They were not about to engage in anything like that. They were the type of satanists who are really more like atheists or neopagans, casting "spells" and engaging in theatrical rituals whenever they were drunk enough to think that it would be fun.
I don't want to belabor the point, but I really want everyone to understand that I am a skeptic whereas my wife is a "leap of faith" type of person. My wife is revelatory, whereas I am methodical and logical. I came at this from the view of a skeptic. I approached this situation ready to explain to my wife that most "witchcraft practitioners" were harmless, like the stupid kids I knew in college.
Sorry for the long intro, but I felt it was necessary. Anyway, this is what she told me:
Over the course of the past couple of weeks, the aunt has begun approaching my wife on a regular basis and inviting her over to the house. My wife is an extremely kind and empathetic person, and we moved out to the country so that we could engage in a culture of neighborliness. With this in mind, my wife is the perfect person to be approached by a lonely old woman in the country.
My wife loves animals, and she loves old people. She thinks that they are cute. On paper, this situation is perfect. It's a cute little family out in the country that wants to have her over for dinner, wants to teach her how to sew, and wants to help her with her new baby. My wife is extremely open to these kinds of situations. That's part of the reason we came out to the country.
However, upon beginning to accept these invitations, my wife started to get bad vibes. I'm not the sort of person who understands terms like "vibes." I'm kind of autistic about this stuff. This is part of why my wife and I are such a good team. We complement one another.
Let's start with the grandmother. In addition to looking like a witch, her behavior is odd. In particular, her behavior is odd when dealing with our baby. She uses strange phrases, such as "you look tasty," when referring to our baby. One time, my wife left him with her for just a moment while she ran back to our house to grab a diaper. He was crying when she got back, and he is normally a very happy baby.
That same time, when my wife left him alone with her for a moment, she said that the grandmothers reaction was strange. It was almost as if she was trying to "play it cool," trying to contain her excitement at the thought of being left alone with the child. My wife also said that the grandmother reacted strangely during a diaper change, as if she was resisting a desire to gaze at my son's naked genitalia.
These behaviors, when taken individually, are no cause for concern. But taken together, I guess that's what adds up to a "bad vibe." Still, however, I'm a skeptic. I remained skeptical, at this point in my wife's description of events. However, I continued exploring by asking my wife questions and processing the information contained within her responses.
First off, there are the dogs on the property. My wife worked as a veterinarian for several years. She is familiar with many different types of animals, and has had relationships with a variety of dogs. She's very familiar with signs of abuse. All of these dogs look like death, they all look much older than they actually are, and they all look like they've been through hell.
Occasionally, I've heard sharp yelling directed at the dogs coming from the house. My wife confirmed this recently. During one of her visits, my wife had walked in the house before the grandmother realized that she was present. This was a candid moment, where the grandmother did not know that she was being watched.
At one of the dogs, she yelled something along the lines of "shut up, or I'll take a whip and ctack your ass!" It was a very specific threat, and The harsh nature of her scream was completely uncharacteristic when compared with the whole "sweet old lady" vibe that she had been trying to cultivate with my wife.
My wife made her presence known, and the grandmother was visibly startled. She was embarrassed. She quickly attempted to explain herself, saying that she was "trying to get the dogs in order," or something like that. My wife brushed it aside and try to tactfully avoid an awkward situation.
So now we have a creepy old "witch" lady who screams at her dogs when nobody's looking, but then pretends to be a sweet old lady when my wife is around. She has a granddaughter who openly practices witchcraft, and they have three hellhounds who look like they've been abused. I feel like I've seen other dogs at the house as well, as if animals may have come and gone. I can't confirm. It's a weird house.
Speaking of the house, it's dingy. It's cluttered. It's labyrinthine. There are pictures of horses everywhere, sculptures of horses, figurines of horses; The whole house is covered in horses. They own two horses, which they keep on a couple of acres of land across the street. Like the dogs, the horses seem to have personality issues. They are not like other horses that my wife has encountered, and she has encountered many (including horses that have been injured, large horses, dangerous horses, etc).
Now, I want to focus on the behavior of the aunt. The aunt is the main instigator in terms of getting my wife to come over to the house. She texts my wife frequently, sometimes just sending emojis or other random things to keep the conversation going. However, and this is important - she does not knock on the door when I am present. All of these efforts take place in the absence of me, the husband and father.
It's easy to know when I'm not home, because we only have one car. If the car isn't there, I'm not home. If the car is there, I'm home. I park on the side of the house that is clearly visible to them, so they would easily know if I was home just by looking out of their window.
In addition to encouraging my wife to visit the house so that the grandmother can play with the baby, she also asks questions. She asks questions about the layout of the house, about where the bedrooms are located. She asks questions about my wife's family, about where they are located. She asks the sort of questions that would be useful to somebody who was trying to kidnap a child. Like I said, when taken individually, none of these things are suspicious. I'm trying to paint a whole picture here, and the whole is more than the sum of its parts.
Now let's talk about the wife. The wife also asks questions. When my wife is outside working on the farm without the baby present, she will ask where the baby is. She doesn't ask "oh, now, where is that cute little baby of yours?" It's more to-the-point. Like: "Where's the baby? Oh, he's in the bedroom sleeping? Okay."
So now we've got the wife and the aunt asking questions that, when taking together, would give somebody the information of where the baby is when he is unattended and what the layout of the house is like.
I'm going to return to that grandmother again, because there was one more comment that really got me thinking. At one point, the grandmother very briefly and casually told my wife about the loss of her 5-year-old child. This is a woman in her 70's, so if she lost her child when he was five, this would have occurred sometime between 1975 and 1990.
When she first mentioned it, It was somewhat ambiguous. She said "I lost my little boy when he was 5 years old." Upon hearing this, you would assume that the boy died. Perhaps he got sick, or maybe he drowned or had some other sort of accident.
She proceeded to sniffle a bit, and put her face into a frown for a moment. My wife described this display of emotion as "fake." She then continued the story: "yes, I just turned away for a second, and when I looked back he was gone." She sniffled for a few more moments, and then immediately shifted back to normal. She never spoke about it again.
So there's a few things to look at here. First of all, she made it clear that her 5 year old son was kidnapped. It was a brief story, containing very little extra information. There was no description of search efforts, no painful reflection. Just a brief and casual comment about how kids, well... sometimes they just go missing. And it's sad - see me snivelling? See me pouting? Ok, I'm done now. Let's go back to talking about normal things.
That whole interaction struck me as odd. I wasn't present, and I've never spoken to the grandmother. I've only seen a brief video of her, which my wife recorded on Snapchat. So I can't comment on her body language, or If her emotions were "fake." I do trust my wife, and I believe that she is good at reading people. She's definitely good with animals.
In order to test these people a little bit, my wife dropped a couple of Christian religious comments. The grandmother was visibly uncomfortable when Christianity was mentioned, and the aunt had an interesting comment. When my wife mentioned it was hard to find God-fearing people, she said "I don't fear God, but I know I wouldn't be here without Him."
Like I said, when taken individually, none of these things mean much of anything. But when taken together, it seems like they are adding up to something strange. I'll give a brief rundown, one more time:
1) Witchcraft openly practiced by at least one member of the household, and is supported by other members of household. Visible discomfort when Christianity is referenced.
2) Obsession with baby. Odd comments about baby. Insistence on visiting the house. Persistent invitations. However, none of this occurs when husband is present. Targeting the weaker vessel?
3) Strange animals, which seem like they have been abused (according to my wife, who is extensive experience dealing with animals who have been injured, animals who are sick, etc).
4) Bipolar behavioral duality (screeching at dogs with oddly specific threats, and then switching to "sweet old lady" mode). Acting "too nice." Awkward situations. "Hansel and Gretel" effect (feeling like one is being lured in with kindness and food).
5) The granddaughter bragged about the fact that their parakeet yelled "go fuck yourself" when a priest entered the house. Apparently, this parakeet doesn't normally say that. It normally only says "thank you" and "I love you." I'm not sure if it's a true story, but regardless, it's weird that the granddaughter bragged about it. The other family members chuckled along when she told the story.
6) Inquiries about the layout of the house and the location of the baby when unattended.
7) Casual mention of the fact that the grandmother had a child who was kidnapped. "Fake" emotions. No follow-up story.
8) Proximity to Washington DC. This may or may not be relevant, but we live within an hour of Washington DC. Unfortunately, DC is definitely a hub of child trafficking. There may be a monetary incentive for those who engage in trafficking.
In conclusion, my wife and I are concerned. We don't want to overreact, and we don't want to be superstitious. Right now, we just have our guard up. We will be locking our doors at all times and we cannot leave him unattended, even if it's just for a moment when he is sleeping and my wife is working outside.
We won't be here for much longer, and we've decided that we are going to lie to the neighbors and tell them that we will be here for much longer than we actually will. This will eliminate any sense of urgency, If they are actually planning something. We also have guns, if anybody tries to break in.
Please let us know what you think, or if you've experienced anything similar. Thank you, and God bless you all!
Even if you’re not Orthodox, please listen to these Father Kosmas talks re: witchcraft and sorcery. I’ve been lurking here for a couple years and this is the first post I’ve been really prompted to write... don’t take your baby there again, make up some excuse, take your family with you to work, have them stay with family, but do not continue to associate with these people. Listen to your wife’s instincts. Is there a church (preferably Orthodox) that you can get holy water from? I think it’s particularly telling that you have an infant first born (I’m assuming) son that they are showing interest in. Don’t leave baby by himself, keep him in the room with you at night if he isn’t already. Pray to God for protection, say The Lord’s Prayer together as a family, make the sign of the cross over him, his crib, and his things. Here is a prayer resource for every occasion and one specifically for children:
Please keep us updated. May God protect and guide you and your family.
I truly appreciate that you took the time to respond. We are Baptist, but we are definitely open to Orthodox prayer and Orthodox holy water. There's a Baptist Church across the street, but we don't go there because they wear masks and they don't sing because of corona restrictions. We are not sure if they are devout Christians or if they are just "playing church."
The thing about the "first born" makes sense. He is, indeed, our first born son. I'm not up to date on satanic sacrifice, but I wouldn't be surprised if this had some significance.
We are definitely going to limit our association with them as much as possible, while not tipping them off. We don't want them to feel any sense of urgency. We are also going to lie to them and pretend that we are staying until November, so that they do not feel any sense of urgency.
We are definitely not going to ever leave our baby unattended, for any reason, even for a short period of time. My wife used to go outside and work on the farm while he was sleeping in the bedroom, but we were definitely not going to do that anymore.
I also posted this in another one other thread, specifically the "anything goes lounge," thread. Everyone there has been very helpful.
Once I get full forum privileges, I'm going to start my own new thread. It will be all about our new homestead (the one that we are currently building), and I will include the escape from our old neighbors as an aside.
The thing about the "first born" makes sense. He is, indeed, our first born son. I'm not up to date on satanic sacrifice, but I wouldn't be surprised if this had some significance.
We are definitely going to limit our association with them as much as possible, while not tipping them off. We don't want them to feel any sense of urgency. We are also going to lie to them and pretend that we are staying until November, so that they do not feel any sense of urgency.
We are definitely not going to ever leave our baby unattended, for any reason, even for a short period of time. My wife used to go outside and work on the farm while he was sleeping in the bedroom, but we were definitely not going to do that anymore.
I also posted this in another one other thread, specifically the "anything goes lounge," thread. Everyone there has been very helpful.
Once I get full forum privileges, I'm going to start my own new thread. It will be all about our new homestead (the one that we are currently building), and I will include the escape from our old neighbors as an aside.
Hi Will,
Very detailed post. I just want to say a few things:
- the family do seem very strange and seem to get their energy from wrath (with the animals and their general language) - as per the book of proverbs, the good word is soft to the lips...
- keep an eye on your baby, the anecdote about her losing her son is to make her seem less guilty and someone who can 'relate'
- the older lady looks like a witch because she probably is one - internal thoughts manifest themselves externally via spots, black eyes or just the general appearance
- the lady mentioned not fearing God - the book of proverbs states that the 'fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom', and the book of Psalms mentions '
The fool has said in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt,
They have done abominable works,
There is none who does good.
2 The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
3 They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.
- ensure that you always have an eye on the child.
positive notes - given your religious beliefs you will be safe, but it's important to listen to your Gut. Humans (for me) aren't intelligent, but we are excellent at picking up signals of what is going on. Everything begins with a thought, a feeling, intuition. You may be best to continue to build up the new house and leave, not letting anyone know where you are going.
Satan tries to go for women as they are easier to manipulate, and that is why they wait for you to leave. One final point would be to try and leave your car elsewhere (but be home) and see how they behave with your own eyes.
God bless and I pray for you and your family.
Hello, Will. First let me say that even one of those points you outlined is a definite deal breaker. Why are you even letting your wife meet these people that are obviously demonically posessed and invite in evil spirits? You can be rational and still believe in the devil. On this forum everyone does believe. And do not take satanists and the occult lightly. If you are not strong in your faith, curses will affect you. I reckon they might have already cursed you and your family. Please consider getting holy water, consulting a priest (the Catholic ones deal with this frequently) and praying lay exorcism prayers. I do not want to be an alarmist or similar, but you should not interact with these obviously evil people anymore and you should think of leaving ASAP. Just my two cents. God bless.
Satan exists, but he is not really real. He is like a trickster, lacking any real substance, borrowing his existence through parasitic means. He can only survive by stealing energy and conspiring amongst others. His mode of existence is resistance and rebellion. God is the other way around. He is supreme and only seems not to exist to the degree you close yourself off from him. Satan seems not to exist to the degree he inhabits people's minds. He is a shapeshifter who always hides and hates to be exposed. God is always there, but can you see him?
Demonic oppression and obsession often start in infancy as a result of curses. I'd take take the time to apply any remedies you can, because it seems safe to assume they tried to curse him. (If someone left their child with you, would you say a prayer for him? Assume the grandmother feels the same way... as it applies to her religion.)
If the story about the parakeet is true — I assume it is, because it would be a strange thing to make up — it indicates the presence of some fairly powerful demons in the house. (Plenty of us are afflicted by low-level demons. They don't cause that sort of phenomena.) Wouldn't surprise me if some blood sacrifices were involved. That sense of unease you have probably stems from feeling the presence of those demons, because they aren't common.
If I'm correct, keep in mind demons at that level tend to cause a lot of "coincidences." Cell phones going dead for no reason at inopportune times. Wife's car spontaneously breaking down on the side of the road. Movers accidentally calling your neighbors — alerting them to the fact that you're moving. Weird things around the house, like something invisible gently poking your things off of shelves. Things spontaneously going missing (hopefully they eventually reappear). Etc.
If I may ask, what county is this in? (I'm familiar with the region, just curious where I'm going to stop driving at night.)
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Today I laid on my bed and heard the birds tjirping. Then I realized that God indeed is always present. You just have to be aware of Him and His signs. I also saw a raven and a seagull as I was having this thought, meaning death and freedom. What a coincidence no? I don't think so. The problem about modern society is that you're always distracted. If we are conscious of our surroundings we see God everywhere and it makes it so much easier to realize the truth of this and withstand Satan, which depending on your definition of real, is yourself fighting yourself. God is stronger than Satan, there's no doubt about that.
We've definitely noticed some strange happenings. We feel like we've been under more stress. I was starting to wonder if they were trying to cast spells to make us more stressed. I noticed myself boiling over with anger much more often than usual.
We've remained vigilant. We are in Washington county Maryland, about halfway between Harpers Ferry WV and Frederick MD (right at the triple border, where West Virginia, Virginia and Maryland all meet. Very close to the Appalachian trail). So we are about an hour from Baltimore and about an hour from DC (both of which could be hubs for human trafficking, especially DC).
The one thing that makes me feel better is the fact that they seem to be more focused on the spiritual rather than the physical. I don't think men with guns are going to invade our house. I think it would be a "snatch" situation, something sneaky. And they are definitely casting some type of spells, or trying to.
The reason that makes me feel better is because I know that we have God on our side, and God is more powerful than satan. We do have guns, if there is ever a physical confrontation. But I don't think that that is their style. They definitely seem more sneaky, and most of them are elderly anyway.
Our goal is to save $2,000 by the end of the month, if possible, and then buy a month at an Airbnb and a U-Haul in our new city (Charleston, West Virginia). Once we are living there, I can go there every day after work to work on the house until it's done. If I'm local, I know I can at least make it livable within a month. I'm doing the plumbing, the electric, everything. The house is gutted.
Thanks for your concern. I will be creating a thread for this, with updates, as soon as I get full member privileges. Shouldn't be too long, I've gotten plenty of likes and reactions.
It occurred to me to mention these after the fact in the list of symptoms. More anger, more stress, more marital discord. Doesn't necessarily take any spells.
One comment on this. Do you have any vices? (The answer is yes.) When you're dealing with powerful demonic phenomena, those vices become more dangerous. (Think of alcohol, rage, take your pick.) Drink the legal amount (two beers) and drive? That's fine most of the time. But when that phenomena is present, it's much more likely that's going to be the evening that you have another driver swerve into your lane. It's possible that an angel will intervene to assist you a little bit, but it's something to keep in mind before you act on that initial vice: raising a voice, taking that initial drink, etc.
I had similar phenomena in my life for some time, and two friends died during that period. (This was while I was living in DC, and one was on a date where there was no mistaking the phenomena behind it.) One was a minister. In retrospect, it was a result of their vices. But it serves to say that God's protection can be more complicated than we make it out to be.
On the bright side, yeah, odds are they aren't traffickers or engaging in (abhorrently) criminal behavior. More likely just an evil family in to the occult.