What does it mean that "game" is dead?

[Blade Runner]

I used to laugh at MGTOW but as I get older I realize there really is not a single thing that a modern secular women would bring to the table, aside from extra baggage from carousel days and the same social dynamics she had with her parents (which are usually bad).

Yes, it is funny to consider the progression. I think it's an internet world and to get attention, people just verbalize what's going on. It's not so much that it's a lifestyle or anything, it's just a matter of fact for a lot of guys in modern clown world.

I recently got another attempted connection from a 35 or 36 year old girl. Is my rolling my eyes about this denying a possible match? Others on the forum would have you believe this, especially the new iteration with the "christian" attempts at suggesting that pairing up is ok, maybe you should just forget what a woman brings to the relatioship and just have a companion. I just don't see that accusation as being legitimate, as they can't possibly argue that you also should marry a fat girl with a "good personality." At some point the pairing or matching has to be, as others have said, equally yoked. It's even funnier that yoking is totally dependent on the geographical location and culture you are in, the true point of things, in my view.

 

[Arcite]

In the London Transport system in the UK they had adverts up telling woman to report men who make eye contact with them to the police

That says it all really..

OK, but "game is has been made illegal" is not the same thing as "game no longer works." The latter is what I have heard, and am asking about.

There are numerous reasons for the change in women's behaviour, which all contribute to women being less interested in men; and hence the growing trend of women sharing men. In short, women (particularly Western women) don't need men. I think a core of this is that the genuine desire for a husband and children has gone from a universal thing, to something on her to do list, to something increasing amounts of women have no interest in. Increasingly women think having a family and children is hetronormative, sexist, climate villainy. On the other end of the liberal spectrum you have women who are addicted to status, lifestyle etc. On the left-right spectrum men are somewhere on the scale of abominations who need to prostrate themselves before opening their mouths; and an accessory. They are not someone to spend your life with and continue your culture with. Your doing well if you can get someone in the centre of that spectrum, as opposed to off it - not secular.

Every corner of the internet has the potential to become an echo chamber, the right-wing manosphere included. I sometimes think we are hyping ourselves into thinking "all women are hooking up with Chad on Tinder" when that's based on ruminating and philosophizing rather than real-world data. The fact is that, even if not all or even not most women are hooking up with Chad on Tinder, there aren't enough women to go around for most average men to have one, for the reasons you give. Maybe 30% of them are hooking up with Chad on Tinder, 30% are in monogamous LTRs, but 40% are content to just come home from work and drink wine, watch Netflix, and go out to dinner with their female friends. An individual woman doesn't feel the same kind of need for a man as a man does for a woman, nor does she have the same kind of sex drive, and while the average Jane might be attracted to the average Joe if she needed to be married to him in order to have a life, we've created an artificial world in which she doesn't.

 

[Viktor Zeegelaar]

OK, but "game is has been made illegal" is not the same thing as "game no longer works." The latter is what I have heard, and am asking about.

Every corner of the internet has the potential to become an echo chamber, the right-wing manosphere included. I sometimes think we are hyping ourselves into thinking "all women are hooking up with Chad on Tinder" when that's based on ruminating and philosophizing rather than real-world data. The fact is that, even if not all or even not most women are hooking up with Chad on Tinder, there aren't enough women to go around for most average men to have one, for the reasons you give. Maybe 30% of them are hooking up with Chad on Tinder, 30% are in monogamous LTRs, but 40% are content to just come home from work and drink wine, watch Netflix, and go out to dinner with their female friends. An individual woman doesn't feel the same kind of need for a man as a man does for a woman, nor does she have the same kind of sex drive, and while the average Jane might be attracted to the average Joe if she needed to be married to him in order to have a life, we've created an artificial world in which she doesn't.

The real world data is that 80 percent of men on dating apps are deemed unattractive by women. All the data is out there. If you want stats go to Rollo Tomassi. The market is skewed though cause if average woman isn't interested in average man you've got a strong imbalance in supply and demand. And yeah a woman now doesn't feel the need of a man in her prime but when she hits her late 20s early 30s, that need will start to nag increasingly, as the attention goes down, the clock starts ticking, overall the world isn't completely her oyster anymore and somewhat a sense of reality starts to kick in. They forget that the period they need safety, stability, meaning and provisioning is way longer than their fun party years. Think about it, the former may be 50 or 60 years (30 to 80/90) and the latter merely 10 years or so (18/28). That's why so many women in their 30s are outrightly panicking, and what we see now is merely a (sad) teaser for what we'll see in the coming decades.

 

[Cynllo]

An individual woman doesn't feel the same kind of need for a man as a man does for a woman

This is very true, as evidenced by the giant gap in interest from both parties. My friend just sent me photos of two of his wife's friends, sisters. I think one is 32 and the other 34. The latter is still an 8. He did offer to introduce me to both of these girls when they were 30, 32. I was interested, partly due to the looks, but more so as they are from my home country. Though maybe I've been a bit spoiled having spent years abroad and been used to much younger women who are more feminine etc. The oldest serious interest I've had was 24, and I very much enjoy the age-gap/care-giver dynamic. It induces a more masculine-feminine relationship. And I suspect those two girls would reject me anyway.

I recently got another attempted connection from a 35 or 36 year old girl. Is my rolling my eyes about this denying a possible match? Others on the forum would have you believe this, especially the new iteration with the "christian" attempts at suggesting that pairing up is ok, maybe you should just forget what a woman brings to the relatioship and just have a companion. I just don't see that accusation as being legitimate, as they can't possibly argue that you also should marry a fat girl with a "good personality." At some point the pairing or matching has to be, as others have said, equally yoked. It's even funnier that yoking is totally dependent on the geographical location and culture you are in, the true point of things, in my view.

I've wondered this, as above. This is the Western offering. And I know you know you can shave 10-15 years, maybe a bit more off that going further south. That would be my a-route. Western pairing are in many cases unnatural. As for a man in good shape settling for an obese woman. Again, I think it's unnatural. It's unnatural for people to go outside of certain areas. If you are an in shape man and you have an obese woman on your are. Everyone in your circle will likely be talking about what's going on here. And if they don't they will be praying to stop from judging you. The reason being is that everyone senses that something unusual is going on here. The same if you are an upper-class guy who ends up married to a street rat. I believe such relations are built on some type of perversion, and no doubt desperation. I believe this comes under natural law and hierarchy.

 

[Viktor Zeegelaar]

This is very true, as evidenced by the giant gap in interest from both parties. My friend just sent me photos of two of his wife's friends, sisters. I think one is 32 and the other 34. The latter is still an 8. He did offer to introduce me to both of these girls when they were 30, 32. I was interested, partly due to the looks, but more so as they are from my home country. Though maybe I've been a bit spoiled having spent years abroad and been used to much younger women who are more feminine etc. The oldest serious interest I've had was 24, and I very much enjoy the age-gap/care-giver dynamic. It induces a more masculine-feminine relationship. And I suspect those two girls would reject me anyway.



I've wondered this, as above. This is the Western offering. And I know you know you can shave 10-15 years, maybe a bit more off that going further south. That would be my a-route. Western pairing are in many cases unnatural. As for a man in good shape settling for an obese woman. Again, I think it's unnatural. It's unnatural for people to go outside of certain areas. If you are an in shape man and you have an obese woman on your are. Everyone in your circle will likely be talking about what's going on here. And if they don't they will be praying to stop from judging you. The reason being is that everyone senses that something unusual is going on here. The same if you are an upper-class guy who ends up married to a street rat. I believe such relations are built on some type of perversion, and no doubt desperation. I believe this comes under natural law and hierarchy.

The down-dating and marrying that guys do is beyond me. I became aware of hypergamy through the red pill space as in women marry up and men marry down, but seeing in real time guys who are legit 8s on every scale - fitness money status personality - being with legit 4s as women, fat, objectively unattractive faces, sometimes masculine too, over the top low education intellect and job, it's painful to watch. This dynamic is so real, you'd never ever ever see that the other way around in a long term situation at least.

 

[Cynllo]

The fact is that, even if not all or even not most women are hooking up with Chad on Tinder, there aren't enough women to go around for most average men to have one, for the reasons you give. Maybe 30% of them are hooking up with Chad on Tinder, 30% are in monogamous LTRs, but 40% are content to just come home from work and drink wine

The specific data is posted on the forum somewhere. The amount of women who regularly engage in casual fornication is very low. On RVF v1, the old hands suggested there is a 10% ballpark of women to target for that. The data showed that looks about right, but it quickly dries up as women age and is rare when women are 35+.

As you say there are different types of women. There are plenty of women who only ever fornicate within a relationship. There are some, few, even not Christians, who just wait it out. Luckily there are many women who need to form a deep bond before going down that route. But it's the same sort of drives that propel that, that are now driving women into not choosing a mate. Men are wired for the r-strategy of "spraying and preying" as Molyneux puts it. And women are wired for y-strategy, of being selective. The Christian/traditional setting forces men into a y-mode, which levels the playing field, and allows for the creation of healthy relationships. Without that, we have a steep hill to climb, and a lot of wifing-up to do. Unless you get very lucky.

 

[Blade Runner]

OK, but "game is has been made illegal" is not the same thing as "game no longer works." The latter is what I have heard, and am asking about.

Every corner of the internet has the potential to become an echo chamber, the right-wing manosphere included. I sometimes think we are hyping ourselves into thinking "all women are hooking up with Chad on Tinder" when that's based on ruminating and philosophizing rather than real-world data. The fact is that, even if not all or even not most women are hooking up with Chad on Tinder, there aren't enough women to go around for most average men to have one, for the reasons you give. Maybe 30% of them are hooking up with Chad on Tinder, 30% are in monogamous LTRs, but 40% are content to just come home from work and drink wine, watch Netflix, and go out to dinner with their female friends. An individual woman doesn't feel the same kind of need for a man as a man does for a woman, nor does she have the same kind of sex drive, and while the average Jane might be attracted to the average Joe if she needed to be married to him in order to have a life, we've created an artificial world in which she doesn't.

Yes, this was the main point, in a way, of the post I made from natty in the other thread (The Myth that women have many options). I agree on the echo chamber part too, it is true in part, at least. The last sentence is accurate, for sure.

 

[Stadtaffe]

OK, but "game is has been made illegal" is not the same thing as "game no longer works." The latter is what I have heard, and am asking about.

Every corner of the internet has the potential to become an echo chamber, the right-wing manosphere included. I sometimes think we are hyping ourselves into thinking "all women are hooking up with Chad on Tinder" when that's based on ruminating and philosophizing rather than real-world data. The fact is that, even if not all or even not most women are hooking up with Chad on Tinder, there aren't enough women to go around for most average men to have one, for the reasons you give. Maybe 30% of them are hooking up with Chad on Tinder, 30% are in monogamous LTRs, but 40% are content to just come home from work and drink wine, watch Netflix, and go out to dinner with their female friends. An individual woman doesn't feel the same kind of need for a man as a man does for a woman, nor does she have the same kind of sex drive, and while the average Jane might be attracted to the average Joe if she needed to be married to him in order to have a life, we've created an artificial world in which she doesn't.

Yes, a lot of them are neither actively on instagram nor on dating apps, but still single.

Yes, there is an engineering of a dystopic brave new world, post-human, getting rid of race and gender. We all on this forum, know this and discuss the many manifestations. The suggestion to report men who stare at women on the London tube is another very clown manifestation of it. I've also seen some similar signage on the London tube, not quite as severe as that but in that direction. Similarly though, I was there at one point with constant announcements "you must wear a mask", signs everywhere to wear a mask, and no-one was wearing a mask. Apart from a few mad feminists, nobody cares.

Game for me is not so much about running mystery scripts anyway, but being tuned in to what is going by, what mood they are in, whether they are looking at you, making eye contact and then being able to act on that immediately.

As everyone else says and you acknowledge, a significant chunk of women have been removed from the possible pool out and about by the apps.

Briefly on the topic of the digital - everyone in the manosphere seems blinkered around tinder and instagram. There are a lot of sites and apps out there, both niche and mainstream, you need to be innovative, test out a lot of different ones. There are digital opportunities on sites which are technically not even classified as dating sites.

 

[analyst_green]

The down-dating and marrying that guys do is beyond me. I became aware of hypergamy through the red pill space as in women marry up and men marry down, but seeing in real time guys who are legit 8s on every scale - fitness money status personality - being with legit 4s as women, fat, objectively unattractive faces, sometimes masculine too, over the top low education intellect and job, it's painful to watch. This dynamic is so real, you'd never ever ever see that the other way around in a long term situation at least.

Are you sure these guys are 8s? I think a lot of men who you may believe are outwardly attractive harbor deep insecurities that impede their success with women.

I'll give an example. I knew two guys in college who were both considered really handsome by women, they were in shape and had an immaculate sense of fashion, and came from fairly wealthy families. Girls would even come up to them at parties to talk to them, which never happened to me. One was so awkward with women that you would cringe listening to him talk, and the other was oblivious to when women were interested in him, I had to point it out to him. The girls would lose interest quickly. So you never know who you're dealing with, and if they are really 8s or 5s or whatever.

 

[Bizet]

Hey guys, this is all very interesting, but it doesn't answer my main question:

Can anyone she some light on this?

It would look like this...

*Warning - this YouTube channel uses a sexually suggestive image as it's logo*



The pickup scene from 5-10 years ago has been mostly replaced by Instagram and dating apps.

Obviously, I'd much prefer a society were men and women met through family and Church, but the silver lining is that the rise of dating apps means a lot of "pick-up coaches" (like the guy in the above video), either are, or will soon be out of work.

Taking large sums of money off naive men and teaching them to spam harrass women who are out of their league is a disgusting way to make a living.

 

[Uzisuicide]

As for the dating down thing: it's better for men to date down. The higher the value of a woman, the more difficult she will be to keep around, Not simply because of other men being attracted to her but she'll cost you more in money and sanity keeping her happy. In my old days I had a few that were of higher value than me but you end up walking away after smashing it for awhile. The amount of work you have to put in to keep those divas long term just isn't worth it. Better to have a lower value girl that will 'center' you and be suitable to settle down with.

As CaliforniaBased pretty much put it. Game is just having confidence and social skills to mingle and meet people. It shouldn't be too hard to have a degree of confidence when most of the western world is comprised of slobs.

I used to run day game and now after covid I can see that this would be more difficult. Most of the women on Metro and running about town in the DC area to and from work are kids. That's fine if you are 25, not 45. A lot of the women in the workforce are working from home and probably will never emerge from there again. So good luck if you occupy an older age bracket.

 

[TooFineAPoint]

I chuckled when I read this, as it is true, but pathetic, of course. It comes off as a version of simping or a blue pill tactic with some money; overaccommodation for female desires, which include "Don't ask or look into my past. Or present!"

Oh man, I think it's even worse than that!

The status + non-judgemental guys are set up so that women perceive their opinion as being important because everyone else says they are important. Then they say "it's all love, girl, you gots to have fun, we're all about a good time", and the chicks just got the secular equivalent of a Papal Blessing for all their past and current sins. It must be like mind-crack for them. Then some mere 6-figure earning, in-shape, honest man (with no record deal and less than 1000 followers on IG) comes up and has the gall to hold them to any sort of standard? What a way to harsh the buzz.


Edit: I have to say, this thread has had great post after great post -- nice discussion, gents!

 

[M3B]

It would look like this...

*Warning - this YouTube channel uses a sexually suggestive image as it's logo*



The pickup scene from 5-10 years ago has been mostly replaced by Instagram and dating apps.

Obviously, I'd much prefer a society were men and women met through family and Church, but the silver lining is that the rise of dating apps means a lot of "pick-up coaches" (like the guy in the above video), either are, or will soon be out of work.

Taking large sums of money off naive men and teaching them to spam harrass women who are out of their league is a disgusting way to make a living.

This is so cringe. Day game should die to stop nerds like this going around creeping out women.

I'd say about 75% of the attractive girls I knew in London over the years (including my current girlfriend) had been stopped by weird guys giving out stupid lines like this idiot.

"you look like an orange".

Where's the facepalm gif library gone?

 

[Blade Runner]

I finally clicked on it and it was no different than anything else. The funny thing is that an asian guy (who looks fine, not trying to dog him) who looks like he's out of a teenage boy band, is coaching an old white dude. As if that guy himself is getting mad chicks lol

 

[SingularityOne]

Game isn't dead.

Every other comment is just cope.

If things get worse enough, then Provider/Strength game will just be the most important game.

But as of right now in the first world, status / non-judgemental game still gives you the highest probability of success. I am not ADVOCATING that, mind you, but it is king right now whether you or I like it or not.

“Nonjudgmental”?

 

[Mr Freedom]

I finally clicked on it and it was no different than anything else. The funny thing is that an asian guy (who looks fine, not trying to dog him) who looks like he's out of a teenage boy band, is coaching an old white dude. As if that guy himself is getting mad chicks lol

His first Mistake is to approach in the West where women do not like Masculinity & definitely do not like an older male approaching them.

I am going to disregard his somewhat shaky voice & nerdy mannarisms as he has a rather masculine 40 year old soccer hooligan look & most of the women were instant rejecting him on the approach phase.

I think if he works on his mannarisms & acts less autistic he could do well in some Eastern European countries where masculinity is more valued & age difference is not as frowned upon.

All this reminds me of a story a freind of mine told me about being in a bar in Moldova where he saw a pair of 9/10 stunners sitting on the same table with two bald meatheads in tracksuit bottoms.

Whereas girls in the west want guys like Pete Davidson. Who despite being tall looks & sounds like a prison queen.

 

[Mr Freedom]

It would look like this...

*Warning - this YouTube channel uses a sexually suggestive image as it's logo*



The pickup scene from 5-10 years ago has been mostly replaced by Instagram and dating apps.

Obviously, I'd much prefer a society were men and women met through family and Church, but the silver lining is that the rise of dating apps means a lot of "pick-up coaches" (like the guy in the above video), either are, or will soon be out of work.

Taking large sums of money off naive men and teaching them to spam harrass women who are out of their league is a disgusting way to make a living.

I kinda disagree

He was not really approaching stunners. In a healthy society he would actually be able to date some of those women with the caveat being he remove some of his autistic behavior patterns during the interaction phase.

 

[Caractacus Potts]

The down-dating and marrying that guys do is beyond me. I became aware of hypergamy through the red pill space as in women marry up and men marry down, but seeing in real time guys who are legit 8s on every scale - fitness money status personality - being with legit 4s as women, fat, objectively unattractive faces, sometimes masculine too, over the top low education intellect and job, it's painful to watch. This dynamic is so real, you'd never ever ever see that the other way around in a long term situation at le

Often that may be related to a geographic location and the demographics in that region. Case in point; check out any small town around a US military installation. You will see many young, attractive in shape men dating and/or married to unattractive women since that is all that is there. Anybody who served and was deployed has heard the term "desert goggles."

 

[Caractacus Potts]

It would look like this...

*Warning - this YouTube channel uses a sexually suggestive image as it's logo*



The pickup scene from 5-10 years ago has been mostly replaced by Instagram and dating apps.

Obviously, I'd much prefer a society were men and women met through family and Church, but the silver lining is that the rise of dating apps means a lot of "pick-up coaches" (like the guy in the above video), either are, or will soon be out of work.

Taking large sums of money off naive men and teaching them to spam harrass women who are out of their league is a disgusting way to make a living.

That was painful to watch but it also made me chuckle. I remember discovering the manosphere and PUA after my divorce and behaving like this guy although I was younger than him. Eventually, I came to realize that regurgitating lines wasn't necessary since I was blessed with height and good looks (thanks mom and dad!) but my confidence had been destroyed by my wife's adultery and betrayal. Immersing myself in red pill content for a number of years allowed me to aquire a notch count significantly higher than the average.

There is an old Yiddish proverb: A drowning man will grasp even the blade of a sword. These pick up coaches are offering hope to these lonely young (and sometimes not so young) men. Roosh is over forty now and I am closer to fifty. I think most of RVF, at least members from the old board, are older and we sometimes forget how it feels to "burn with desire" as St. Paul warned about.

Where and how are we supposed to find these women to marry? Given the direction the board has gone in the past few years the obvious answer is church but many of us don't find any single women at our parishes. What are those men supposed to do? Before anyone answers with devote yourself to prayer and go light candles and say novenas and ask the Holy Spirit to intervene, what are concrete steps that can be taken?

Edit: I am not implying that prayer is not important. I am not passively sitting back waiting for the Holy Spirit to Amazon Prime me a "more valuable than rubies, virtuous, helpmeet. But we are men, and we live in this world. God made us for action. For too long people have been anesthetized with the internet, and weed, and booze and Pron, myself included. Everyone looking for a hack or a cheat code.

Rereading this I see that I have gone off on a tangent am just stream of consciousness typing. I find myself in the same situation as the man in the video. I wanted a family, an in-tact, loving one, not the broken one that was forced upon me. Is it too late for me to find a girl/woman to have more children with? I love my girls but I would really love to have a son. And there practical considerations, end of life things I think about. As a child I went to a lot of wakes, funerals, nursing home visits. The idea that family is so important and visiting the sick was inculcated into us. I admit I sometimes think about dying alone. I hope that I won't but I would prefer to have a strong family, united, rather than a fractured one when that day comes.

My apologies for going off topic.

As you were.

 

[Blade Runner]

All this reminds me of a story a freind of mine told me about being in a bar in Moldova where he saw a pair of 9/10 stunners sitting on the same table with two bald meatheads in tracksuit bottoms.

Ahh, the differences in wealth, feminism and culture. This is more common than not in EE.

Whereas girls in the west want guys like Pete Davidson. Who despite being tall looks & sounds like a prison queen.

They want whatever they are fed, but your point is well taken.