What does it mean that "game" is dead?

[doodydota]

I'd speculate that game still works if someone is to get the low hanging fruit and waste his and her time. I first came across the concept in the book "Game" by Roosh. I did find the manipulative pick-up techniques repulsive, but it did help me not to take rejection personally. And I found this forum.

 

[coffeedrinker]

I personally believe game as in knowing what is attractive behaviour to women is not only not dead, but more important than ever. Even when girls might "hate" your views, being confident, unapolegetic, capable of creating and releasing tension, having clear boundaries and intent gets them attracted. Sometimes even more so if they have extreme views. The number of guys that have these skills is ridiculously low, so you do stand out even if in the end some girls go for that "influencer good looking jack ass".

Being extreme feminist doesn't remove the natural pull to people who are strong (mentally and physically) and charismatic. Sure, good looks is a massive boost, but there are countless good looking guys who will never get a good LTR girl due to their behaviour, and there are many "bad looking guys" who have high quality wives and can hold the attention of groups of people with just their presence.

I also saw the stupid adverts on the London tube regarding eye contact and so on. But I just ignore them. The chances of actually having serious consequences if you have at least a little bit of common sense is basically zero. There are men that have been failed by society so badly that they have become total creeps. I sure as hell wouldn't want any of my future daughters to be harassed by them either but those adverts don't help in any way. They just encourage gender wars and drama.

Society has failed both men and women. Blaming either gender is pointless. Long term peace in western world has made it easy to focus too much on short term pleasure and not put effort into skills and behaviour that has long-term benefits.

Its easy for us to say that women are superficial and only care about good looks, money and status but

1) We, as men also tend to be very superficial
2) A lot of us are also damaged goods or nowhere near the level of attractiveness that we could be if we focussed on improving ourselves
3) The world was always like this. Sometimes a little better, sometimes a little worse, but we are all kidding ourselves if you believe that things have ever been significantly better in the history of mankind. This is just another cycle that would eventually return, whether through war or change of attitudes.

And even if I am totally wrong, what is worse: To focus on things that I cannot control (Women's actions, society, fairness of the world) and live a life full of negativity, or focus on developing myself, improving my skills with women and keep trying which I can control.

Sure, when women can do such significant harm to you through divorce/cheating etc, especially when kids are involved, it can be really demotivating. But I rather try and fail, and try again and again if need be.

I feel that some people are waiting for society to change, which is unlikely to happen in any meaningful way in our lifetime, or making their life mission to help change society and personally, I believe that's a noble sacrifice that I'm too selfish to care about because I believe these things have a natural cycle that's hard to interrupt.

It's tough that society doesn't teach us many of the vital skills men and women need in early ages when it is so much easier to absorb. Then as adults we have to unlearn a lot of bad habits and learn new ones playing catch up. But it is what it is, and it does excite me that if I'm lucky enough to have any children, I will hopefully be able to pass on these skills from an early age.

 

[Mr Freedom]

Agree & kinda disagree with some points.

Yes men can do much more to improve however in the West/Anglosphere most women have been conditioned to hate traditional masculinity.

The type of masculinity women want (especially in the big cities) is clown masculinity & not Christian/Trad masculinity.

There is a reason why guys like Tate are hated despite being very masculine himself. You try to take away modern womens agency or expose that they are not capable of running a ship & you will find yourself ostricised.

Mention the bible to them, the'yll think you're a weirdo. Not all but the vast majority.

It kinda annoys me when guys say both men & women need to better themselves as though its a 50/50 thing. This is a very boomer/early Gen X take.

mellenial & zoomer women have so much given to them by modern secular society that they have no qualms with the status quo. Its seems they thrive on these fake wordly powers given to them by the powers at be.

Btw Its mainly men who want a return to traditional norms but they get out voted by women, blue pillers, simps & boomers who have lived there lives & simply dont care or understand how precarious the situation is.

 

[TooFineAPoint]

Agree & kinda disagree with some points.

Yes men can do much more to improve however in the West/Anglosphere most women have been conditioned to hate traditional masculinity.

The type of masculinity women want (especially in the big cities) is clown masculinity & not Christian/Trad masculinity.

There is a reason why guys like Tate are hated despite being very masculine himself. You try to take away modern womens agency or expose that they are not capable of running a ship & you will find yourself ostricised.

Mention the bible to them, the'yll think you're a weirdo. Not all but the vast majority.

It kinda annoys me when guys say both men & women need to better themselves as though its a 50/50 thing. This is a very boomer/early Gen X take.

mellenial & zoomer women have so much given to them by modern secular society that they have no qualms with the status quo. Its seems they thrive on these fake wordly powers given to them by the powers at be.

Btw Its mainly men who want a return to traditional norms but they get out voted by women, blue pillers, simps & boomers who have lived there lives & simply dont care or understand how precarious the situation is.

If you view "bettering yourself" only from the lens of directly appealing to women then I suppose you have a point to be annoyed.

But in what existence, timeline, or even theory would anyone ever be better off not trying to improve themselves in some fashion? Who cares what women are doing? You can still get better in a myriad of ways and that's its own reward.

Millennial and Zoomer women have also been lied to probably more than anyone in history. At least with dudes they were just told they were worthless and (mostly) left alone. Women now have the expectation to be the most brazen of whores AND outcompete the most competitive of men in their Quixotic adventure to become New Men.

 

[Острог]

What does it mean that "game" is dead?​

That it's dead just like punk is dead.

 

[Blade Runner]

3) The world was always like this. Sometimes a little better, sometimes a little worse, but we are all kidding ourselves if you believe that things have ever been significantly better in the history of mankind. This is just another cycle that would eventually return, whether through war or change of attitudes.

Not really. The tradeoff was that normal life and struggles still had women that were decent partners. Now we get a lot of convenience, but mostly that wears off after your 20s, which are an age also sabotaged by modern leftist/egalitarian nonsense. You still benefit from an "easier" life but it largely is taken for granted. Even if you work hard, work out, and achieve you end up asking yourself, for what?

or focus on developing myself, improving my skills with women and keep trying which I can control.

Yes.

I feel that some people are waiting for society to change, which is unlikely to happen in any meaningful way in our lifetime,

Another point of truth, which then offers up the only real way to change things, even harder = move out of the west.

You try to take away modern womens agency or expose that they are not capable of running a ship & you will find yourself ostricised.

Indeed.

Mention the bible to them, the'yll think you're a weirdo.

Same

It kinda annoys me when guys say both men & women need to better themselves as though its a 50/50 thing. This is a very boomer/early Gen X take.

The imbalance is huge. I've pointed out that one of the real drawbacks of modern living is the tons of men present (attention/social media is porn for women), which makes things both convenient and a snowball effect of the men that achieve (a small percent of large number is still big) not being able to find a woman on average even close to his value.

mellenial & zoomer women have so much given to them by modern secular society that they have no qualms with the status quo.

This is why it's black pill, sadly, when you understand that a generation won't change, it just has to go cat lady until the free money and fake social systems vanish. That likely means 20 years at least, too long for most guys here.

Millennial and Zoomer women have also been lied to probably more than anyone in history.

It's irrelevant, especially to a man. He's damaged either way by the lies, and since men put value on agency and principle, we couldn't care less for that excuse. If no one listens to you when you tell them that most of what they do or know is based on lies, it matters very little.

 

[coffeedrinker]

Agree & kinda disagree with some points.

Yes men can do much more to improve however in the West/Anglosphere most women have been conditioned to hate traditional masculinity.

The type of masculinity women want (especially in the big cities) is clown masculinity & not Christian/Trad masculinity.

There is a reason why guys like Tate are hated despite being very masculine himself. You try to take away modern womens agency or expose that they are not capable of running a ship & you will find yourself ostricised.

Mention the bible to them, the'yll think you're a weirdo. Not all but the vast majority.

It kinda annoys me when guys say both men & women need to better themselves as though its a 50/50 thing. This is a very boomer/early Gen X take.

mellenial & zoomer women have so much given to them by modern secular society that they have no qualms with the status quo. Its seems they thrive on these fake wordly powers given to them by the powers at be.

Btw Its mainly men who want a return to traditional norms but they get out voted by women, blue pillers, simps & boomers who have lived there lives & simply dont care or understand how precarious the situation is.

The expectation that most men and women should get what they want just creates victim mentality. There never was a time when this was the case. Only strong people who knew how to make the most of their talents and luck made it. I've only just started reading the Bible so I'm not fully educated, but it gives me the impression that God rewards strong deeds, regardless if the deeds themselves were bad, as long as the goal was ultimately noble.

Even if women have it easier than men by some arbitrary standard, even if society is turning against religion and traditional lifestyles, what is there left to do? Complain, or become the best version of yourself given these limits. So what if in the end it all crashes down because of society or a cheating wife? You have no control over that. I rather think that I will overcome the challenges of today's world, get a loyal wife and end up failing than not trying at all.

Even if you work hard, work out, and achieve you end up asking yourself, for what?

I would rather this dysfunctional society that at least tries to increase the time between wars and enable people to build wealth and improve yourself then having to wonder when some mad king, dictator or local landlord will pillage everyone and kill anyone they don't like. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know how the past was, but it sounds pretty horrible to me from history books.

 

[Blade Runner]

Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know how the past was, but it sounds pretty horrible to me from history books.

It's true, we can lose sight of this. Good point.

 

[Easy_C]

First, let it be said that I'm not advocating fornication. I'm just curious how the dynamic between men and women has changed in our society.

I went to Roosh's talk when he was touring America in 2019, and one of the things he said was "game is dead." Perhaps I should have asked about this during the Q&A time, but I didn't. He made it sound like all that old pickup and seduction stuff just doesn't work anymore.

I was never a PUA myself. I first learned of the "seduction community" when I was 32 years old, but because of a combination of conservative Christian convictions about premarital sex, approach anxiety, and feeling I was already too old for the bar/club scene, I never tried it myself. Never went out "sarging." But I did read/view a bunch of material: the book The Game, Mystery's original guide (the "Venusian Arts Handbook,") some David DeAngelo and RSD videos. So I had a sense of what it was about.

And what I thought is that these guys had "cracked the code," so to speak, of what made women attracted to men. You could memorize these "stacks" of "material," go up to girls, tap them on the shoulder, say "quick question, then I've gotta get back to my friends--who lies more, guys or girls?," run these routines, and since everything was carefully calculated to trigger all a woman's innate, instinctive, subconscious attraction triggers, she would become attracted to you.

So how can it be that that stuff doesn't work anymore? If a guy goes up to a girl in 2022, and tries these Mystery method-style routines on her, and her reaction is not to become attracted to him... what is her reaction? And why, what changed?

(As an aside a quick internet search reveals that there are still PUA "coaches" hawking their materials and "bootcamps" and such. What is going on there? Are they just total quacks/scam artists at this point?)

A: That PUA stuff didn’t really work in and of itself. The value is that preparation begets confidence.

B: The social environment is now much lower trust.

 

[inthefade]

punk is dead.

The Chats' new album is pretty good.

 

[Острог]

The Chats' new album is pretty good.

Yes but it's no longer a movement.

 

[Stoiam]

Correct, the rot is too deep. Individualism plays a key part in this too, for people as they ''only have this life, this is all we have!'' just have blinders on and don't care about God, tradition, their bloodline, or the future.

My thought is like, if I have only one life, I will try to live the best that I can. Meaning, I will live righteously if I have one life. If there is more than one life, then you can for example screw around. However if you only have one life, then you have to live righteously, thinking about God, tradition, your bloodline, the future, you have to give it all you got. If having only one life, I cannot afford to screw it up.

 

[Blade Runner]

My thought is like, if I have only one life, I will try to live the best that I can. Meaning, I will live righteously if I have one life. If there is more than one life, then you can for example screw around. However if you only have one life, then you have to live righteously, thinking about God, tradition, your bloodline, the future, you have to give it all you got. If having only one life, I cannot afford to screw it up.

Surprisingly the logical take: most others come to the other conclusion, but from lack of faith.

 

[bubs]

So how can it be that that stuff doesn't work anymore? If a guy goes up to a girl in 2022, and tries these Mystery method-style routines on her, and her reaction is not to become attracted to him... what is her reaction? And why, what changed?

I think lots of others have hit the major reasons already, and my take is that most women (all ages) live primarily digitally and have so much vested time in their digital world that they just don’t have much desire to invest time into a real world relationship and the drama and headaches that may result. Deemed too high risk / little reward. As long as the woman does not have social anxiety issues she may still may enjoy the flirtations and game from a strange man in real life situations (only if the man is at least moderately attractive physically to her), but she would only entertain the risk of a date with him unless he is very very attractive or high value (because otherwise it’s deemed a waste of her time….she can get all the attention from online and her phone).

 

[Easy_C]

I think lots of others have hit the major reasons already, and my take is that most women (all ages) live primarily digitally and have so much vested time in their digital world that they just don’t have much desire to invest time into a real world relationship and the drama and headaches that may result. Deemed too high risk / little reward. As long as the woman does not have social anxiety issues she may still may enjoy the flirtations and game from a strange man in real life situations (only if the man is at least moderately attractive physically to her), but she would only entertain the risk of a date with him unless he is very very attractive or high value (because otherwise it’s deemed a waste of her time….she can get all the attention from online and her phone).

Just because you don't see the sexual activity doesn't mean it's not taking place. A lot of what they do is short liasons at their or the guy's place and no significant offline social involvement with the man.

 

[bubs]

Just because you don't see the sexual activity doesn't mean it's not taking place. A lot of what they do is short liasons at their or the guy's place and no significant offline social involvement with the man.

Agree. This is interesting in that I have a lot of single guy friends in their 40’s and 50’s that have been single without a LTR for a long time, not since their 20’s or early 30’s. They may get a 1 night hookup like once every couple years, but the woman always rejects any further advancement of a relationship. Just use them for a night of fun and on a few occasions have returned again for another fling but the guys I know would all be looking for a relationship (except for one woman who was crazy and my friend ghosted her). Again I think it’s the currency of men want sex and women want attention, and it’s so much easier for women to get attention all the time and very hard for most men (except for the top %) to get sex very often.

 

[Mr Freedom]

The expectation that most men and women should get what they want just creates victim mentality. There never was a time when this was the case. Only strong people who knew how to make the most of their talents and luck made it. I've only just started reading the Bible so I'm not fully educated, but it gives me the impression that God rewards strong deeds, regardless if the deeds themselves were bad, as long as the goal was ultimately noble.

Even if women have it easier than men by some arbitrary standard, even if society is turning against religion and traditional lifestyles, what is there left to do? Complain, or become the best version of yourself given these limits. So what if in the end it all crashes down because of society or a cheating wife? You have no control over that. I rather think that I will overcome the challenges of today's world, get a loyal wife and end up failing than not trying at all.

I dont think you should not try

Rather look where the grass is greener. I would go to South America or EE to find a women instead of the Anglosphere for example.

I would rather this dysfunctional society that at least tries to increase the time between wars and enable people to build wealth and improve yourself then having to wonder when some mad king, dictator or local landlord will pillage everyone and kill anyone they don't like. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know how the past was, but it sounds pretty horrible to me from history books.

I disagree actually. At least in the past you coukd easily keep your women in check via christianity & build a family.

Today we live in technological fuedalism where most men are getting cucked & are living in a dystopia where the state can turn their kids into trannies. Is this really a better life? Safer for sure but more of a living nightmare to be perfectly honest.

At least in the past you would die like a man fighting for your fuedal lord overseas. In the west right now most men are living a techno prison, a matrix for lack of a better term.

 

[Akaky Akakievitch]

At least in the past you would die like a man fighting for your fuedal lord overseas. In the west right now most men are living a techno prison, a matrix for lack of a better term.

You're right that there was a far greater sense of honour and integrity in the past when fighting or serving, whereas now it feels very contrived. You would have to be either severely blue-pilled, forcibly coerced, previously living under a rock or clinically insane to want to fight for Globohomo these days.

Also I want to comment on that last part there, about men being trapped in a "techno prison", something that has affected all of us these past few years especially. Now more than ever, I've been noticing an inclination towards anti-social evenings sat in front my my computer tucked away in my room, rather than embrace the outside world or reach out to others. Living in a major urban centre doesn't help, as it seems to encourage more of this pod life.

The zoomer generation are essentially guinea pigs in a giant technological experiment right now. Our generation and above (age 25+) can always recall a time before the techno-dystopia and have been less conditioned by it, but how will zoomers navigate relationships in the future after being raised on screens and social media likes essentially from the cradle?

The future of society looks bleak, especially when considering declining sperm counts/birth rates worldwide (except Africa, perhaps the future centre of civilisation if trends continue) although I always remind myself that God allows all these things to happen, for our overall benefit -- and it's always the way that we make doomer predictions but things turn out far better than we would expect (unless the end times are nearer than we might assume, it's quite possible)

The big hope moving forward is that more people realise secularism for what it is, and instead decide to become Orthodox, choosing chastity over fornication, then marriage over co-habitation. I don't see how game could help with this.

From my perspective, it seems like Game largely champions the fornicator, while providing minor gains to any God-fearing man who desires a wife, but overall is largely unnecessary and a relic of the PUA era. I must admit I was ignorant of the PUA scene mostly, but that's not particularly a bad thing. I probably saved myself from inflicting a lot of pain and heartache by avoiding it, although without the tools of game I already caused enough damage through my teens and 20's.

I wouldn't suggest anyone study game, personally. It seems like a net negative, overall.

 

[Blade Runner]

What has been, and now is, happening (and even becoming more common and "popular") are movements closer to prostitution, internet and technology related, and aided. Economy gets worse? Less religious people and communities? Everyone becomes more individualized, more short term, more skeptical of traditional things to "get by". It is an unwise decision of course over the long term, but until the middle gets hollowed out, the wealth drops out from the bottom of most economies, and social dangers increase, things like sugaring, DMing sliding, and short term everything will continue to increase, I'm sad to say.

Men have no protection in long term relationships and women don't actually want them until it is way too late. That's a recipe for short term transactional nonsense and/or time wasting without any future of its own.

 

[coffeedrinker]

I dont think you should not try

Rather look where the grass is greener. I would go to South America or EE to find a women instead of the Anglosphere for example.



I disagree actually. At least in the past you coukd easily keep your women in check via christianity & build a family.

Today we live in technological fuedalism where most men are getting cucked & are living in a dystopia where the state can turn their kids into trannies. Is this really a better life? Safer for sure but more of a living nightmare to be perfectly honest.

At least in the past you would die like a man fighting for your fuedal lord overseas. In the west right now most men are living a techno prison, a matrix for lack of a better term.

I agree with your first point. People should always take risks and go to where it is easier to get what they want. It's like when people complain that the industry in their city was killed off by X. Tough luck, got to figure out a way to move and find a new career/income.

On the second point, I'm not disagreeing because I don't know, but is there no chance of glorifying the past? For example, stories based on Casanova and even of various kings who may have been cheated on by their wives makes me feel that the past wasn't much different in terms of difficulty to holding together a secure family. Except in the past, you also had to say and do exactly as the local leader told you to and if you even got a slight hint of ambition, you had a high chance to be betrayed by family or killed off.

Sure, were there some families who stayed together 24/7 basically and worked on a farm their whole life? Maybe. Not sure if that type of prison is any better or how many families managed to survive this way through all the dangers though.

Maybe there were short periods where the times truly were a lot better, but I'm more inclined to believe that relative speaking and as a whole, things are better for the average person then before.