Do not say, "I fell away because of the Lord,"
For He will not do what He hates.
Do not say, "It was He who led me astray,"
For He has no need of a sinful man.
The Lord hates all abominations,
And they are not loved by those who fear Him.
He Himself created man in the beginning
And left him in the counsel of his will.
If you will, you will keep the commandments
And faithfully do His good pleasure.
He has set before you fire and water;
If you will, stretch forth your hand.
Life and death are before mankind,
And whichever he chooses, it will be given to him.
For great is the wisdom of the Lord;
He is mighty in power and sees all things.
His eyes are upon those who fear Him,
And He Himself knows every deed of man.
He has commanded no one to be ungodly,
And He has given no one license to sin.
Now you know partly why many Protestants don't consider the Wisdom of Sirach canonical. They removed books that were part of canon for over 1000 years seemingly because they didn't fit with their new philosophy, such as that and 2 Maccabees which includes prayer for the dead and explains the basis for it.I randomly came across this passage in the Wisdom of Sirach 15 last night. It seems obviously incompatible with the idea of predestination and also dualism.
Now you know partly why many Protestants don't consider the Wisdom of Sirach canonical. They removed books that were part of canon for over 1000 years seemingly because they didn't fit with their new philosophy, such as that and 2 Maccabees which includes prayer for the dead and explains the basis for it.
Most of the Elders in my church have done missionary work in foreign countries. The reason being is that God commanded us to evangelize. In no way does that negate God's decree on predestination. God has means to carry out His Will, namely the Church, but He does not rely only on His means to fulfill His Will as He can work without mediation.But in the Calvinist doctrine we are all just robots with no say in the matter, which ironically makes their preaching pointless since they can’t change our preordained destiny anyway.
Interesting, I didn't know that. It did cross my mind what the Protestant interpretation would be whilst I was reading the text.Now you know partly why many Protestants don't consider the Wisdom of Sirach canonical. They removed books that were part of canon for over 1000 years seemingly because they didn't fit with their new philosophy, such as that and 2 Maccabees which includes prayer for the dead and explains the basis for it.
I'm going to bow out of this thread because it's not targeted at me but I would like to mention that the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Christ were predestined, perhaps the first and foremost things that were predestined.The concept of predestination makes Jesus Christ's death and resurrection look like the biggest prank ever committed.
There was a puritan spiritualist, Anne Hutchinson who caused a comical schism in the colonies during the late 1630s. Her opinion on predestination is one that stuck with me. She said something to the effect of, "What's the point of living a holy life if you're path to heaven or hell is already predestined?"I've recently been reading a lot of Calvinist literature and have become interested about the role of predestination in the process of salvation. What is Orthodoxy's view on the matter and why is it correct?
He would be a source when it comes to understanding Calvinism.Considering that James White won't engage with Orthodox thinking at all and prone to making excuses about how it's supposedly impossible for westerners to understand, his opinion is worth very little to me.
That is not the Roman Catholic position per se. There are two major schools of thought in Catholicism. What you’ve described is basically just the Molinist position. The Molinist view is that God predestines those whom He knows will respond to His grace. Those whom He knows will not respond to His grace He does not predestine to heaven. Obviously, the difference here is that Predestination is dependent upon the individual's actions, and not upon God's sovereign will.The classic Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic position is that God predestined based on foreknowledge that someone would accept the Gospel (Conditional Election).
You should check out Garrigou-Lagrange's work, Predestination. It is very thorough. It's a difficult read, but it's well worth the effort. On a personal note, I view myself as more of a Thomist.If any one saith, that the grace of Justification is only attained to by those who are predestined unto life; but that all others who are called, are called indeed, but receive not grace, as being, by the divine power, predestined unto evil; let him be anathema (CANON XVII). (Click here to read the full context of the canon.)