Home
Forums
New posts
What's new
New posts
Latest activity
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Home
Forums
Orthodox Christianity
Inquirers and catechumens
What is Orthodoxy's view on predestination and why is it correct?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pathos" data-source="post: 1555108" data-attributes="member: 24295"><p>I've consulted my humble personal library and I didn't find anything explicitly mentioning predestination from an Orthodox perspective. However, since predestination is seen in contrast to free will, the concept ultimately is closely tied to the dogma of original sin (or "ancestral" sin as some Orthodox would call it to distinguish it from "inherited guilt" as it is commonly understood in the West), as you may have deduced from my musings in this thread.</p><p></p><p>For that reason, I think it's more appropriate to see it in the context of the debate with Pelagius and later versions of his doctrine which essentially denied original sin (whether in its Latin or Greek interpretation). Geographically, it seems this debate occurred mostly in the West with St. Augustine being vocally opposed to Pelagianism and the local Second Council of Orange condemning semi-Pelagianism though without affirming <em>double predestination.</em> Essentially, the West had some understanding of predestination or election but not in a Calvinist sense. Also, it did not rule out "free will" entirely, as I understand it, but rather that our freedom of will is diminished as a consequence of the Fall. This implies that salvation is ultimately always from God.</p><p></p><p>The Ecumenical Council of Ephesus (geographically in the East) condemned Pelagianism so this is normative for Orthodoxy whereas the local canons of Orange aren't per se. St. John Cassian appears to have been regarded as semi-Pelagian by some yet he's a saint for both Catholics and Orthodox. At any rate, I've seen Orthodox writers speak of the "elect" (as the Bible does) in the sense of those members of the Church that keep the faith and work out their salvation but predestination seems to have been more developed in the West under St. Augustine's influence and as a response to Pelagius (who was British).</p><p></p><p>For some historical background on the controversy, you could check out Owen Chadwick's "<a href="https://www.amazon.com/Early-Church-Penguin-History-v/dp/0140231994" target="_blank"><strong>The Early Church</strong></a>", chapter 15, which is titled "<strong><em>The development of Latin Christian thought</em></strong>", specifically <strong>pages</strong> <strong>225 to 235</strong> under the heading "<strong><em>The City of God and the Pelagian controversy</em></strong>".</p><p></p><p>For an Orthodox dogmatic definition of original sin that mentions both Pelagianism and St. Augustine, see Fr. Pomazansky's "<a href="https://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Dogmatic-Theology-Concise-Exposition/dp/0938635697" target="_blank"><strong>Orthodox Dogmatic Theology</strong></a>", chapter 5, which is titled "<strong>Concerning Evil and Sin</strong>", specifically <strong>page 164</strong>. The author condemns Pelagianism but there is no mention of "predestination" in this book.</p><p></p><p>I assume Fr. Seraphim Rose's book "<a href="https://www.amazon.com/Blessed-Augustine-Orthodox-Church-Theological/dp/0938635123" target="_blank"><strong>The place of Blessed Augustine in the Orthodox Church</strong></a>" should provide some more information on predestination from an Orthodox perspective though since I don't own a copy I can't tell for sure.</p><p></p><p>I'm still learning myself but I hope this is useful.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pathos, post: 1555108, member: 24295"] I've consulted my humble personal library and I didn't find anything explicitly mentioning predestination from an Orthodox perspective. However, since predestination is seen in contrast to free will, the concept ultimately is closely tied to the dogma of original sin (or "ancestral" sin as some Orthodox would call it to distinguish it from "inherited guilt" as it is commonly understood in the West), as you may have deduced from my musings in this thread. For that reason, I think it's more appropriate to see it in the context of the debate with Pelagius and later versions of his doctrine which essentially denied original sin (whether in its Latin or Greek interpretation). Geographically, it seems this debate occurred mostly in the West with St. Augustine being vocally opposed to Pelagianism and the local Second Council of Orange condemning semi-Pelagianism though without affirming [I]double predestination.[/I] Essentially, the West had some understanding of predestination or election but not in a Calvinist sense. Also, it did not rule out "free will" entirely, as I understand it, but rather that our freedom of will is diminished as a consequence of the Fall. This implies that salvation is ultimately always from God. The Ecumenical Council of Ephesus (geographically in the East) condemned Pelagianism so this is normative for Orthodoxy whereas the local canons of Orange aren't per se. St. John Cassian appears to have been regarded as semi-Pelagian by some yet he's a saint for both Catholics and Orthodox. At any rate, I've seen Orthodox writers speak of the "elect" (as the Bible does) in the sense of those members of the Church that keep the faith and work out their salvation but predestination seems to have been more developed in the West under St. Augustine's influence and as a response to Pelagius (who was British). For some historical background on the controversy, you could check out Owen Chadwick's "[URL='https://www.amazon.com/Early-Church-Penguin-History-v/dp/0140231994'][B]The Early Church[/B][/URL]", chapter 15, which is titled "[B][I]The development of Latin Christian thought[/I][/B]", specifically [B]pages[/B] [B]225 to 235[/B] under the heading "[B][I]The City of God and the Pelagian controversy[/I][/B]". For an Orthodox dogmatic definition of original sin that mentions both Pelagianism and St. Augustine, see Fr. Pomazansky's "[URL='https://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Dogmatic-Theology-Concise-Exposition/dp/0938635697'][B]Orthodox Dogmatic Theology[/B][/URL]", chapter 5, which is titled "[B]Concerning Evil and Sin[/B]", specifically [B]page 164[/B]. The author condemns Pelagianism but there is no mention of "predestination" in this book. I assume Fr. Seraphim Rose's book "[URL='https://www.amazon.com/Blessed-Augustine-Orthodox-Church-Theological/dp/0938635123'][B]The place of Blessed Augustine in the Orthodox Church[/B][/URL]" should provide some more information on predestination from an Orthodox perspective though since I don't own a copy I can't tell for sure. I'm still learning myself but I hope this is useful. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Home
Forums
Orthodox Christianity
Inquirers and catechumens
What is Orthodoxy's view on predestination and why is it correct?
Top
