What makes certain people become red-pilled?

What is everyone's hypothesis? My money is on raw intelligence. I think there is a certain level of intelligence that simply sees through the crap. Evidence that backs up my theory is the fact that virtually 100% of participants on right-wing forums and social media have good to excellent writing skills and an obvious ability to think critically.

Any other theories? Could it be upbringing/education; life experience; religious beliefs, etc.?
 

JiggyLordJr

Kingfisher
There is always a trigger that brings someone over to the other side. It generally involves pain, because continuing to live in the narrative brings them to a level of imminent destruction. That's what really wakes someone up, like splashing cold water on their face. It generally involves reading old RoK articles, perhaps just Heartiste or even good ol' Rollo Tomassi. The bottom line is that these people have decided they want to see the Truth. As raw as it may be. And once one has seen the Matrix for what it is, they can't go back. God has opened their eyes, and they must continue on as Seekers of the Truth. A Blessing ,it is.
 
I’d love to say it’s all intelligence, but there are a lot of simple people who don’t buy into the blue pill BS. I think it’s a mix of different things and many combinations lead to the same answer. Smarts, ability to reason, upbringing, cultural influence, personal experience with degeneracy, all can contribute. While many of us came to see the light, there must be people who never were deceived too.
 
I guess if we're following the movie analogy, some of us were simply "born outside of The Matrix." I was raised to question everything and everyone. I can't say I've always made good decisions based on my understanding of the truth, but the so-called "red pill" has never challenged my understanding of what's what. I can't claim ignorance, or having the wool pulled over my eyes, as an excuse for much of anything.

I don't really know what exactly it takes for someone who IS delusional, and who HAS bought into the lies, to start seeing the truth. I wish I knew. Intelligence and upbringing make sense as factors - but at the same time, I look at someone like my little brother: similar upbringing (in fact, I helped raise him), similar intelligence (maybe smarter than me), excellent grasp of logic, reason, etc.... but still resistant to the truth in more ways than I can shake a stick at.
 

Aboulia

Woodpecker
Do you consider yourself a Calvinist? I resonate pretty strongly with Calvinist theology, and this explanation lines up pretty solidly.

The problem with Calvin's theology is that it leaves no room for the human will, everything is fore-ordained in a neat, tidy, package. Reality doesn't work like that. What kind of God creates a creature that is fore-ordained to worship him similar to empty mechanical beings executing a program, and those condemned aren't suffering because of themselves, but because of how God made them, which ends up making God the creator of Evil. If God is the creator of evil, then that makes God a horrifying deity in which he condemns and tortures people for the way he made them.

If you have this mentality, it's easy to justify other people's position in life, and not do anything to help them. It alleviates the conscience. God foreordained their sufferings, and he foreordained whether or not he'll pull them through it, and it's not my problem, God will take care of it. If you look at what ILAB said here, and applied that lens to it. You get a kind of Jewish thinking "Thank you God for making me a man and not a woman." as if there was no personal part to play in it. Whereas I think he's referring to the only thing that makes him different from those others, is his belief in God, and if it weren't for the things that God placed in his path, and gave him the attentiveness and strength to pursue it (but not the will), he may be just like them. It's a way of giving thanks for what God has given him, without exalting himself as better over others, as the redpill/bluepill connotation usually carries.
 

Mr Gee

Pigeon
Yes. I think you mean a high pain threshold. Lots of intelligent people recognise the bizarre patterns and inconsistencies in society but can not carry this around in day to day life as it is stressful and to confront it is very painful, so they put such thoughts at the back of their mind and live with ignorance and practice cognitive dissonance, a rather detrimental condition that eats at your soul. It can be ignored by filling your days with trivial pursuits. If they only could stay still a while they would see the error of their ways.
 
The problem with Calvin's theology is that it leaves no room for the human will, everything is fore-ordained in a neat, tidy, package. Reality doesn't work like that. What kind of God creates a creature that is fore-ordained to worship him similar to empty mechanical beings executing a program, and those condemned aren't suffering because of themselves, but because of how God made them, which ends up making God the creator of Evil. If God is the creator of evil, then that makes God a horrifying deity in which he condemns and tortures people for the way he made them.

If you have this mentality, it's easy to justify other people's position in life, and not do anything to help them. It alleviates the conscience. God foreordained their sufferings, and he foreordained whether or not he'll pull them through it, and it's not my problem, God will take care of it. If you look at what ILAB said here, and applied that lens to it. You get a kind of Jewish thinking "Thank you God for making me a man and not a woman." as if there was no personal part to play in it. Whereas I think he's referring to the only thing that makes him different from those others, is his belief in God, and if it weren't for the things that God placed in his path, and gave him the attentiveness and strength to pursue it (but not the will), he may be just like them. It's a way of giving thanks for what God has given him, without exalting himself as better over others, as the redpill/bluepill connotation usually carries.
I'm not necessarily 100% on board with Calvinism, but my constant overanalyzing of the workings of the universe, both physical and metaphysical, has definitely brought me to its mile marker on my journey. I appreciate what you said; it's good to hash these philosophies out with someone outside of my own mind.

I think one of the reasons why I find it resonating has to do with my experience of evil. I just read today of a man who slit his 8-year-old son's throat. I have a difficult time believing in the Arminian concept that this man could somehow repent and receive Christ. That seems virtually impossible.

Another reason it resonates with me has to do with my own personal experience with faith. Throughout the years, faith has been a convoluted process for me; I will find myself believing, and then not. But I can't quite shake it. I've tried. I've tried telling myself that the physical universe is all that exists; that all religion is man-made; that when we die, we die. But something won't let me go completely. Something DRAWS me back. Is this Calvin's "irresistible grace"?

Those are probably my top two reasons at this time.
 

ben1

Pigeon
It is two part: being of an analytical nature and having experiences that violate the blue pilled norms promoted in society.

So you see stuff like, "Doing the dishes is an aphrodisiac for women!" No it absolutely is not. Or stuff about, "Toxic masculinity" when 70% of the females you know are toxic.

Throw in some terrible relationships and some betrayals and analytical people will set their minds to figuring out why things keep going wrong when they keep doing everything right. Then they take the red pill.

By the way, I am a Calvinist. A Reformed Presbyterian to be specific.
 
It is two part: being of an analytical nature and having experiences that violate the blue pilled norms promoted in society.

So you see stuff like, "Doing the dishes is an aphrodisiac for women!" No it absolutely is not. Or stuff about, "Toxic masculinity" when 70% of the females you know are toxic.

Throw in some terrible relationships and some betrayals and analytical people will set their minds to figuring out why things keep going wrong when they keep doing everything right. Then they take the red pill.

By the way, I am a Calvinist. A Reformed Presbyterian to be specific.
Nice. My dad's side of the family are Dutch Reformed.
 

NickK

Robin
Do you consider yourself a Calvinist? I resonate pretty strongly with Calvinist theology, and this explanation lines up pretty solidly.
The problem with Calvin's theology is that it leaves no room for the human will, everything is fore-ordained in a neat, tidy, package. Reality doesn't work like that. What kind of God creates a creature that is fore-ordained to worship him similar to empty mechanical beings executing a program, and those condemned aren't suffering because of themselves, but because of how God made them, which ends up making God the creator of Evil. If God is the creator of evil, then that makes God a horrifying deity in which he condemns and tortures people for the way he made them.

If you have this mentality, it's easy to justify other people's position in life, and not do anything to help them. It alleviates the conscience. God foreordained their sufferings, and he foreordained whether or not he'll pull them through it, and it's not my problem, God will take care of it. If you look at what ILAB said here, and applied that lens to it. You get a kind of Jewish thinking "Thank you God for making me a man and not a woman." as if there was no personal part to play in it. Whereas I think he's referring to the only thing that makes him different from those others, is his belief in God, and if it weren't for the things that God placed in his path, and gave him the attentiveness and strength to pursue it (but not the will), he may be just like them. It's a way of giving thanks for what God has given him, without exalting himself as better over others, as the redpill/bluepill connotation usually carries.
Yeah, Calvinism is the most evil, demonic, anti-human doctrine of the "reformation".
 
How about you?
Oh, gosh. The question of my life.

I was raised Catholic; became agnostic in my teens. I found myself on a deep search for meaning around the age of 20, which led to my landing at a Pentecostal church. I didn't know they were Pentecostal (they didn't have it in the name) and I wasn't even educated about denominations at that time, but I was drawn to the passion of their worship. I stayed there for 13 years and grew into a very fervent evangelical Christian. In 2014, at the age of 34, I found myself losing my faith entirely. It was the end of an 18-month or so period of time, a "dark night of the soul", if you will, in which my doubts had grown too strong and too many for me to fight off.
At that point I was adrift. I studied many denominations as well as paganism, Norse in particular. I went back to the Catholic church of my youth during this period and took it rather seriously. But my 13 years in the evangelical church, as well as a staunch Protestant husband, have left me very comfortable with Protestantism. When we do attend church as a family, it's a Protestant one.
As I said in a post above, Christ never lets me go throughout all of this. I return to Him time and time again, which is a phenomenon that seems quite similar to Calvin's irresistible grace.
Ultimately, I follow goodness. I don't mean that in a silly postmodern sense. I mean it like Goodness, with a capital G. If nothing else is clear to me, the battle between good and evil is crystal clear. The goings on of the last decade or so have brought evil right to the forefront of my sensitivities, in an otherwise sheltered Gen X life.
 

ben1

Pigeon
Oh, gosh. The question of my life.

I was raised Catholic; became agnostic in my teens. I found myself on a deep search for meaning around the age of 20, which led to my landing at a Pentecostal church. I didn't know they were Pentecostal (they didn't have it in the name) and I wasn't even educated about denominations at that time, but I was drawn to the passion of their worship. I stayed there for 13 years and grew into a very fervent evangelical Christian. In 2014, at the age of 34, I found myself losing my faith entirely. It was the end of an 18-month or so period of time, a "dark night of the soul", if you will, in which my doubts had grown too strong and too many for me to fight off.
At that point I was adrift. I studied many denominations as well as paganism, Norse in particular. I went back to the Catholic church of my youth during this period and took it rather seriously. But my 13 years in the evangelical church, as well as a staunch Protestant husband, have left me very comfortable with Protestantism. When we do attend church as a family, it's a Protestant one.
As I said in a post above, Christ never lets me go throughout all of this. I return to Him time and time again, which is a phenomenon that seems quite similar to Calvin's irresistible grace.
Ultimately, I follow goodness. I don't mean that in a silly postmodern sense. I mean it like Goodness, with a capital G. If nothing else is clear to me, the battle between good and evil is crystal clear. The goings on of the last decade or so have brought evil right to the forefront of my sensitivities, in an otherwise sheltered Gen X life.
Sounds like you have had a wild ride. But I will encourage and exhort you though, don't return to Christ occasionally: make Christ your all. He offers himself freely not only to unbelievers but to those who have known him for a long time. He offers renewed grace daily for the sins of the past and the needs of the future.
 
Sounds like you have had a wild ride. But I will encourage and exhort you though, don't return to Christ occasionally: make Christ your all. He offers himself freely not only to unbelievers but to those who have known him for a long time. He offers renewed grace daily for the sins of the past and the needs of the future.
Thank you and Amen, friend.
 

Aboulia

Woodpecker
I'm not necessarily 100% on board with Calvinism, but my constant overanalyzing of the workings of the universe, both physical and metaphysical, has definitely brought me to its mile marker on my journey. I appreciate what you said; it's good to hash these philosophies out with someone outside of my own mind.

I think one of the reasons why I find it resonating has to do with my experience of evil. I just read today of a man who slit his 8-year-old son's throat. I have a difficult time believing in the Arminian concept that this man could somehow repent and receive Christ. That seems virtually impossible.

Another reason it resonates with me has to do with my own personal experience with faith. Throughout the years, faith has been a convoluted process for me; I will find myself believing, and then not. But I can't quite shake it. I've tried. I've tried telling myself that the physical universe is all that exists; that all religion is man-made; that when we die, we die. But something won't let me go completely. Something DRAWS me back. Is this Calvin's "irresistible grace"?

Those are probably my top two reasons at this time.

Well, I'm in no ways condemning you for your beliefs, everyone holds various beliefs of how they make sense of the world at different times. Aligning with a Reformed church with the TULIP doctrine was the last Protestant step in my Christian journey.

Regarding the repentance of a murderous father, all people no matter how depraved can return to the truth. We have no idea why depraved people are depraved, and we have no idea if God has hardened their hearts (because they first denied Him). We are to treat all as if they have the ability to repent. Who knows what drove that man to murder his child. He could have an already weak man, who had been abused as a child, abused drugs/alcohol to cope, who then went through a painful separation with a spiteful ex-wife/girlfriend who's using the child as a power token to extract wealth, and furthermore plans to make the a forced gender transition, and the man saw this slitting of the throat as the lesser of two evils. Point is, you never know people's life history or what's going through people's heads, and a 500 word newspaper article never goes into detail. All we can do, is learn to hate the sin, and love the sinner.

The Orthodox had to deal with a similar notion back in the fourth century (the heresy called Donatism), the Donatists believed that some of those who apostatized under persecution couldn't be accepted back. I know of it, but not in too much detail for the potential repentance of sinners never really bothered me.

"Irresistible grace" falls under the same category as my first post, it removes man's will and reduces people to automatons. Do you believe you had absolutely no choice in whether or not you returned to a belief in God?
 
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