What makes certain people become red-pilled?

Luna Novem

Woodpecker
Woman
Well, I'm in no ways condemning you for your beliefs, everyone holds various beliefs of how they make sense of the world at different times. Aligning with a Reformed church with the TULIP doctrine was the last Protestant step in my Christian journey.

Regarding the repentance of a murderous father, all people no matter how depraved can return to the truth. We have no idea why depraved people are depraved, and we have no idea if God has hardened their hearts (because they first denied Him). We are to treat all as if they have the ability to repent. Who knows what drove that man to murder his child. He could have an already weak man, who had been abused as a child, abused drugs/alcohol to cope, who then went through a painful separation with a spiteful ex-wife/girlfriend who's using the child as a power token to extract wealth, and furthermore plans to make the a forced gender transition, and the man saw this slitting of the throat as the lesser of two evils. Point is, you never know people's life history or what's going through people's heads, and a 500 word newspaper article never goes into detail. All we can do, is learn to hate the sin, and love the sinner.

The Orthodox had to deal with a similar notion back in the fourth century (the heresy called Donatism), the Donatists believed that some of those who apostatized under persecution couldn't be accepted back. I know of it, but not in too much detail for the potential repentance of sinners never really bothered me.

"Irresistible grace" falls under the same category as my first post, it removes man's will and reduces people to automatons. Do you believe you had absolutely no choice in whether or not you returned to a belief in God?
In answer to your last sentence... sort of, yes. But it doesn't strike me as a negative, whereas the word "automaton" definitely holds a negative connotation. I think of it more like gravity, kind of; a love so strong and pure and powerful that it magnetically pulls me in.
 

debeguiled

Peacock
Gold Member
Yes. I think you mean a high pain threshold. Lots of intelligent people recognise the bizarre patterns and inconsistencies in society but can not carry this around in day to day life as it is stressful and to confront it is very painful, so they put such thoughts at the back of their mind and live with ignorance and practice cognitive dissonance, a rather detrimental condition that eats at your soul. It can be ignored by filling your days with trivial pursuits. If they only could stay still a while they would see the error of their ways.
So you can even make a one word post and there will be someone on the Internet to tell you you meant something else.
 
I think it definitely has an effect if you're outside the matrix already...

For example, stand-up comics have a high ratio of red-pilled guys... always have, because they're already outside of regular society and have time to look into everything.

That's another thing... having the time to watch things at source and not just catch the headlines. Like for me, I remember watching the whole UN WMD hunt pre-Iraq. It was fucking ridiculous. Colin Powell literally gave a presentation based on satellite pics of oil tankers, claiming it was nerve gas or something. Hans Blix stood up and confirmed it was oil and THE NEXT DAY it was a humanitarian war.

Once you see the bullshit live...

I was also on the ground of peaceful Moscow whilst CNN were reporting city-wide riots using footage taken in Athens))

Things like that help.
 

Aboulia

Woodpecker
In answer to your last sentence... sort of, yes. But it doesn't strike me as a negative, whereas the word "automaton" definitely holds a negative connotation. I think of it more like gravity, kind of; a love so strong and pure and powerful that it magnetically pulls me in.

Looking at God's love as gravity is a far healthier outlook than "Irresistible grace". Gravity is always there, and always present on earth, it's part of what makes "earth" what it is, but it's not irresistible. Otherwise we would be entirely crushed by it and bound to the earth like a lifeless inanimate rock. We run, we jump, we build rockets/satellites, we can oppose gravity by acts like these. It doesn't mean it's not there, but that it can be overcome, and is overcome, for there cannot be any motion on earth without it being overcome.

God's grace is similar. It can be overcome. How else could evil exist on earth? True, many "theologians" of Reformed thought express hesitancy at the term "irresistible" due to the mechanical implications and they try to change the various way it's worded, but it's built into the outlook since Calvinist doctrine makes man's will irrelevant.

Let me make it clear, none of this is to put in your head the idea to change where you attend church, or who you associate with, God brought you there. Be a rooted person and do the good where you are, and to whom you come across in life. I'll leave you with an article and a short story of Dostoyevsky (10 pages)

The Essential Goodness of All Things

The Dream of a Ridiculous Man
 

ben1

Pigeon
The problem with Calvin's theology is that it leaves no room for the human will, everything is fore-ordained in a neat, tidy, package. Reality doesn't work like that. What kind of God creates a creature that is fore-ordained to worship him similar to empty mechanical beings executing a program, and those condemned aren't suffering because of themselves, but because of how God made them, which ends up making God the creator of Evil. If God is the creator of evil, then that makes God a horrifying deity in which he condemns and tortures people for the way he made them.

If you have this mentality, it's easy to justify other people's position in life, and not do anything to help them. It alleviates the conscience. God foreordained their sufferings, and he foreordained whether or not he'll pull them through it, and it's not my problem, God will take care of it. If you look at what ILAB said here, and applied that lens to it. You get a kind of Jewish thinking "Thank you God for making me a man and not a woman." as if there was no personal part to play in it. Whereas I think he's referring to the only thing that makes him different from those others, is his belief in God, and if it weren't for the things that God placed in his path, and gave him the attentiveness and strength to pursue it (but not the will), he may be just like them. It's a way of giving thanks for what God has given him, without exalting himself as better over others, as the redpill/bluepill connotation usually carries.
Many would do well to read Calvin himself on his doctrine of divine providence:

 

ben1

Pigeon
Looking at God's love as gravity is a far healthier outlook than "Irresistible grace". Gravity is always there, and always present on earth, it's part of what makes "earth" what it is, but it's not irresistible. Otherwise we would be entirely crushed by it and bound to the earth like a lifeless inanimate rock. We run, we jump, we build rockets/satellites, we can oppose gravity by acts like these. It doesn't mean it's not there, but that it can be overcome, and is overcome, for there cannot be any motion on earth without it being overcome.

God's grace is similar. It can be overcome. How else could evil exist on earth? True, many "theologians" of Reformed thought express hesitancy at the term "irresistible" due to the mechanical implications and they try to change the various way it's worded, but it's built into the outlook since Calvinist doctrine makes man's will irrelevant.

Let me make it clear, none of this is to put in your head the idea to change where you attend church, or who you associate with, God brought you there. Be a rooted person and do the good where you are, and to whom you come across in life. I'll leave you with an article and a short story of Dostoyevsky (10 pages)

The Essential Goodness of All Things

The Dream of a Ridiculous Man
The "Irresistible Grace" doctrine comes from the unfortunate acronym TULIP which was a summary of the outcome of the ecumenical synod of Dort which was in response to the Pelagian-izing tendencies of the Remonstrants led by followers of Arminius.

The Canons of Dort describe these doctrines in much more careful ways and they read like a simple gospel presentation. Highly recommended reading.

 

Elipe

Kingfisher
It is two part: being of an analytical nature and having experiences that violate the blue pilled norms promoted in society.

So you see stuff like, "Doing the dishes is an aphrodisiac for women!" No it absolutely is not. Or stuff about, "Toxic masculinity" when 70% of the females you know are toxic.

Throw in some terrible relationships and some betrayals and analytical people will set their minds to figuring out why things keep going wrong when they keep doing everything right. Then they take the red pill.

By the way, I am a Calvinist. A Reformed Presbyterian to be specific.
I think this really is the best answer here; most of us are here not because we're just so gosh-darned smart - because let's be honest, even simple people can be red-pilled. It's definitely a combination of being analytical and having experiences that collapse the narrative in your mind. To use the Matrix example, because that's where everybody goes for the blue-pill/red-pill analogies, what really gets you to realize you're stuck inside the Matrix is when it glitches. When someone in the Matrix sees the black cat walk by twice in the exact same way, they realize something's not quite right, and that sets them on the road to being more open and accepting of the red pill.

In the same way, we're here because we realized that things didn't quite work as we were told they should. Things just don't add up correctly, and we become more receptive to the idea that there are alternative models that explain what we experience much better. We've tried the feminist model, and it just didn't work so well for us, so we ended up looking for some other explanation, and that's where the manosphere model came in, and when we tried out what the manosphere told us to do, we experienced sudden success with women like we never did while operating under the feminist model. So obviously, something was wrong with the feminist model and very right with the manosphere model. So the Narrative began to collapse for us.

Naturally, when one aspect of the Matrix fails to convince you, you start to question other aspects of the Matrix. You start to realize you're part of a Matrix, that the Matrix is not reality. You become a truth-seeker, but in the process of seeking truth, you realize that the truth points to bigger and bigger pieces of truth - all facets of the penultimate Truth that is the Lord. Because Christianity is true, it is the absolute reality of the world, and thus, any attempts to uncover the truth behind our reality will ultimately point to Christianity.
 

Mr Gee

Pigeon
So you can even make a one word post and there will be someone on the Internet to tell you you meant something else.
Isn’t the this interweb thingy great
It seems I have been lurking here to much lately. Please forgive me sir. I did not mean to cut the man’s lunch.
I shall take a break from these discussions.
I’ll miss the the honk pill. maybe I’ll sneak a peak there.
 

messaggera

Woodpecker
Woman
Sounds like you have had a wild ride. But I will encourage and exhort you though, don't return to Christ occasionally: make Christ your all. He offers himself freely not only to unbelievers but to those who have known him for a long time. He offers renewed grace daily for the sins of the past and the needs of the future.

Jesus Christ is our true and only guide back to God.
John 14:6

Roosh just wrote a nice piece that relates: The Cardinal Outside Your Window
 
Once you experience someone abusing or trying to abuse their authority, you become skeptical of institutions and other people's intentions. Unfortunately, we live in what I would imagine is one of the most corrupt times in history so there's no end to the evidence you can find that suggests that officials are lying, cheating, stealing, etc.
 

debeguiled

Peacock
Gold Member
Isn’t the this interweb thingy great
It seems I have been lurking here to much lately. Please forgive me sir. I did not mean to cut the man’s lunch.
I shall take a break from these discussions.
I’ll miss the the honk pill. maybe I’ll sneak a peak there.
Not a problem. No need to disappear. Next time, just append instead of correcting.
 

typtre

Robin
For those familiar with the briggs-meyer personality types, INTJ/INTP types make up less than 5% of the population, but are massively over-represented among dissidents.
This is probably the only reason I became red-pilled. "The unexamined life is not worth living". Friends and family never seem curious enough, or willing, to ask questions that stray from the norm. My own problem was stumbling on the right kind of information. Much is hidden, diluted or snake oil. As @Elipe said, when for instance the feminist model fails, some of us (eventually) tries to find out why, others just start over again. Instead of taking a step back, Agent Smith steps in. I think a lot of it comes down to Agent Smith, or the Ego. The Ego is a self-defense mechanism that shuts down thought patterns when they become too much of a burden on the system.

"NOOoo what are you doing the boat only goes on water! :mad:"



"Oh..."
 

OutlawJustice

Sparrow
Woman
What is everyone's hypothesis? My money is on raw intelligence. I think there is a certain level of intelligence that simply sees through the crap. Evidence that backs up my theory is the fact that virtually 100% of participants on right-wing forums and social media have good to excellent writing skills and an obvious ability to think critically.

Any other theories? Could it be upbringing/education; life experience; religious beliefs, etc.?
I think it's the ability to connect the dots. Things that were confusing by themselves for a long time, but when exposed to the truth, you start to have an epiphany.
 

Leeloo

Woodpecker
Woman
Experience, and strength of mind. The latter being an ability to resist the planting of certain thoughts as “right” and “normal” to the rest of the world, but being able to see through it and realize it’s not how it should be.


And by experience I mean that no matter our age, we have learned the lesson that the world isn’t going to change for us. The degenerates think something is unfair and that it should change for them simply because they don’t like it or it makes them uncomfortable. We, on the other hand, have adapted and learned to play the game the way it is and figured out how to work around challenges while keeping faith. And nothing is “unfair,” just the way it is.

A societal survival of the fittest, so to speak.
 

prendergast

Sparrow
I know many people say that the modern web is designed to serve the exact opposite purpose of red-pilling people but I think that's only true for social media and MSM websites. I actually think that most people in the past twenty years became red-pilled through the Internet.

Thanks to my dad who worked in IT and was very tech literate, I've been on the Internet since I was very young, five years old. There are pictures of me at a computer with my tiny hands trying to grip a mouse, lol. My parents didn't monitor my activity or anything like that, so I ran into some things that would be considered inappropriate for a young child. I also spent a large chunk of my time on the computer playing online video games. I remember being like eight years old and chatting with people (some were adults) in games such as Unreal Tournament 2004. While I am sure they thought I was stupid or even a foreigner (reading old chat logs, my spelling/grammar as an eight year old was so, so horrible), I was exposed to some worldviews that were not taught to me in school. Of course I was young so I didn't understand the big picture.

I think because I spent a lot on my youth browsing websites such as 4chan and even some of the darker subreddits (before Reddit went woke and starting banning anything and everything) I became desensitized to a lot of subjects that would be considered taboo. I was not really a big reader of books as a child but I think that was because I was too clueless to understand some of the "big boy" non-fiction material. I did spend a lot of time reading Wikipedia articles on the Nazis and I secretly admired them for their uniforms and suaveness. I also liked reading about true crime stuff.

I know that being "red-pilled" is conflated with "right-wing thought" but I really think it's about becoming desensitized to anything and everything. That is, no topic is off-limits. You don't necessarily have to agree with everything you hear, such as that the antebellum era and the Holocaust were not so bad, just so long as you are willing to engage in these topics. Why did I read about the things that I did? I dunno, natural curiosity I guess. But I was also able to handle it. Many people can't. I don't know why this is.

You have to realize that *everyone* living and raised in society, due to their programming, will have an emotional reaction to certain thoughts or ideas. For instance, if a normie saw a bunch of communist LARPers marching down the street holding up portraits of Lenin/Marx/Stalin/Mao, they might be annoyed. But now imagine that they saw a bunch of skinhead neo-nazis holding a rally with Nazi flags everywhere. The normie would be disgusted and would have an negative emotional reaction to it, even though communism/marxism has killed millions more people than the Nazis ever did.

I think the Internet (again, by Internet I mean forums such as this one; NOT Facebook or Instagram lol) is the best way to overcome this programming because you are able to engage in conversation with normal, everyday people all over the world, so you are more exposed to actually new ideas, not the BS you're taught in formal education. If you are able to handle new ideas and you are even the least bit curious to learn more, I think that you will eventually become red-pilled to some extent. But before the days of the Internet it was so much harder to become red-pilled. So young people don't get mad at your boomer relatives for not being as red-pilled as you are, they didn't have alternative media!

Before the days of the Internet, people, unless they had a red-pilled relative/friend or had an experience, had to become red pilled through reading books. More specifically, by reading heavy material such as Oswald Spengler, Julius Evola, Thomas Mann, etc. etc. But the thing is, most people are absolutely turned off by the idea of reading tough books so it was kind of a litmus test. I mean, who would want to read an old book with a title such as "Reflections on the Revolution in France" ??? So as a result, the people who became red-pilled were actually capable of reading this stuff. I am sure many had extremely high IQs (120, 130, 140+). People like Ted Kaczynski (who had an IQ of like 160) who actually read hard-hitting books were capable of making extremely accurate predictions about society. They were years ahead of their time.

But all you need nowadays to become red-pilled is an Internet connection and a stomach. You don't need to be a genius.
 
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Luna Novem

Woodpecker
Woman
I know many people say that the modern web is designed to serve the exact opposite purpose of red-pilling people but I think that's only true for social media and MSM websites. I actually think that most people in the past twenty years became red-pilled through the Internet.

Thanks to my dad who worked in IT and was very tech literate, I've been on the Internet since I was very young, five years old. There are pictures of me at a computer with my tiny hands trying to grip a mouse, lol. My parents didn't monitor my activity or anything like that, so I ran into some things that would be considered inappropriate for a young child. I also spent a large chunk of my time on the computer playing online video games. I remember being like eight years old and chatting with people (some were adults) in games such as Unreal Tournament 2004. While I am sure they thought I was stupid or even a foreigner (reading old chat logs, my spelling/grammar as an eight year old was so, so horrible), I was exposed to some worldviews that were not taught to me in school. Of course I was young so I didn't understand the big picture.

I think because I spent a lot on my youth browsing websites such as 4chan and even some of the darker subreddits (before Reddit went woke and starting banning anything and everything) I became desensitized to a lot of subjects that would be considered taboo. I was not really a big reader of books as a child but I think that was because I was too clueless to understand some of the "big boy" non-fiction material. I did spend a lot of time reading Wikipedia articles on the Nazis and I secretly admired them for their uniforms and suaveness. I also liked reading about true crime stuff.

I know that being "red-pilled" is conflated with "right-wing thought" but I really think it's about becoming desensitized to anything and everything. That is, no topic is off-limits. You don't necessarily have to agree with everything you hear, such as that the antebellum era and the Holocaust were not so bad, just so long as you are willing to engage in these topics. Why did I read about the things that I did? I dunno, natural curiosity I guess. But I was also able to handle it. Many people can't. I don't know why this is.

You have to realize that *everyone* living and raised in society, due to their programming, will have an emotional reaction to certain thoughts or ideas. For instance, if a normie saw a bunch of communist LARPers marching down the street holding up portraits of Lenin/Marx/Stalin/Mao, they might be annoyed. But now imagine that they saw a bunch of skinhead neo-nazis holding a rally with Nazi flags everywhere. The normie would be disgusted and would have an negative emotional reaction to it, even though communism/marxism has killed millions more people than the Nazis ever did.

I think the Internet (again, by Internet I mean forums such as this one; NOT Facebook or Instagram lol) is the best way to overcome this programming because you are able to engage in conversation with normal, everyday people all over the world, so you are more exposed to actually new ideas, not the BS you're taught in formal education. If you are able to handle new ideas and you are even the least bit curious to learn more, I think that you will eventually become red-pilled to some extent. But before the days of the Internet it was so much harder to become red-pilled. So young people don't get mad at your boomer relatives for not being as red-pilled as you are, they didn't have alternative media!

Before the days of the Internet, people, unless they had a red-pilled relative/friend or had an experience, had to become red pilled through reading books. More specifically, by reading heavy material such as Oswald Spengler, Julius Evola, Thomas Mann, etc. etc. But the thing is, most people are absolutely turned off by the idea of reading tough books so it was kind of a litmus test. I mean, who would want to read an old book with a title such as "Reflections on the Revolution in France" ??? So as a result, the people who became red-pilled were actually capable of reading this stuff. I am sure many had extremely high IQs (120, 130, 140+). People like Ted Kaczynski (who had an IQ of like 160) who actually read hard-hitting books were capable of making extremely accurate predictions about society. They were years ahead of their time.

But all you need nowadays to become red-pilled is an Internet connection and a stomach. You don't need to be a genius.
This. This, this, this, to the eleventy-first power. There are ABSOLUTELY certain ideas you cannot bring up without people getting upset at the least, all the way up to hating/firing/deplatforming you at the worst.
 

Vigilant

Woodpecker
Woman
I think this really is the best answer here; most of us are here not because we're just so gosh-darned smart - because let's be honest, even simple people can be red-pilled. It's definitely a combination of being analytical and having experiences that collapse the narrative in your mind. To use the Matrix example, because that's where everybody goes for the blue-pill/red-pill analogies, what really gets you to realize you're stuck inside the Matrix is when it glitches. When someone in the Matrix sees the black cat walk by twice in the exact same way, they realize something's not quite right, and that sets them on the road to being more open and accepting of the red pill.

In the same way, we're here because we realized that things didn't quite work as we were told they should. Things just don't add up correctly, and we become more receptive to the idea that there are alternative models that explain what we experience much better. We've tried the feminist model, and it just didn't work so well for us, so we ended up looking for some other explanation, and that's where the manosphere model came in, and when we tried out what the manosphere told us to do, we experienced sudden success with women like we never did while operating under the feminist model. So obviously, something was wrong with the feminist model and very right with the manosphere model. So the Narrative began to collapse for us.

Naturally, when one aspect of the Matrix fails to convince you, you start to question other aspects of the Matrix. You start to realize you're part of a Matrix, that the Matrix is not reality. You become a truth-seeker, but in the process of seeking truth, you realize that the truth points to bigger and bigger pieces of truth - all facets of the penultimate Truth that is the Lord. Because Christianity is true, it is the absolute reality of the world, and thus, any attempts to uncover the truth behind our reality will ultimately point to Christianity.
definitely a combination of being analytical and having experiences that collapse the narrative in your mind. To use the Matrix example, because that's where everybody goes for the blue-pill/red-pill analogies, what really gets you to realize you're stuck inside the Matrix is when it glitches.
8 minutes -

We Can't Trust "Conservatives" To Conserve Anything | Nick Fuentes​

 
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