What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
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whitewashedblackguy
Kingfisher
If I’m going to be in a relationship, I’m going to be with the prettiest, most pleasant girl I can find. Just because she’s pretty doesn’t mean she’ll be a bitch, just like some ugly girls aren’t nice. If you’re screening girls for a relationship, you’re gonna filter out bitches anyways.
Consciously picking a girl one or two points below you is like getting a Toyota instead of getting a Porche because you’re scared you might scratch the car. It’s a lack of confidence in yourself. What does that say about your inner game?
Get the Porche, and if you don’t like it, it’s not a big deal. Trade it in for something else you’ll enjoy.
Consciously picking a girl one or two points below you is like getting a Toyota instead of getting a Porche because you’re scared you might scratch the car. It’s a lack of confidence in yourself. What does that say about your inner game?
Get the Porche, and if you don’t like it, it’s not a big deal. Trade it in for something else you’ll enjoy.
whitewashedblackguy said:
I hope you're doing this in a third world village. This works in the provincial Philippines, Vietnam, rural Peru, parts of Africa, etc. If you're going this route in the modern west, you're asking for trouble.
I think people are having two somewhat separate conversations here.
I disagree strongly with "find you a landwhale" because keeping yourself healthy is something anyone can do and is indicative of a greater life outlook. Someone who doesn't take care of themselves is unlikely to be an effective caretaker for their family and their community. If you've got ten extra pounds, whatever, but being obese is unacceptable and is a personality failing - it's not comparable to being scarred from an accident or happening to be naturally plain looking.
But, I agree with the sentiment that aiming for the highest SMV woman is a trap, because SMV has been hacked, doing so rewards status seekers and narcissists. If your goal is fucking, then it makes sense to just aim for whatever you find the most viscerally attractive. When I was living a more degenerate lifestyle I was fine with just having a good time, getting a taste of the highest value of every style, race, etc. of woman I came across, doing as much kinky and decadent shit as I could, always raising the stakes to keep that high going. And while I now regret giving these women the validation of my attention and sex, it was what it was. I saw it as transactional, I was just partying, I knew none of these women were going to be meaningful fixtures in my life.
But of course values and lifestyle are more important for a meaningful, lasting relationship. The kind of relationship where you make a family and build a community around you as I'm trying to do. You aren't likely to get that from the party girls and instathots who look good riding your cock. You have to find a woman who will be a nurturing and protective mother, who'll be a hub of the community, who's reliable and responsible and wants to succeed at these more transcendent things in life, not just collect double-taps. And, yes, you want her to be fertile and genetically fit (the usual things which SMV reflected traditionally, until it became a parody of itself), but that is not necessarily (I would go so far as to say that is unlikely to be) the "hottest" girl around.
Find yourself a good woman. It's hard. They're out there, and their numbers are growing as everyone gets sick of this atomized, meaningless clown world, but it's still hard to find. But that's what any good man has to do - find that woman, be an honorable man with her, raise honorable, healthy, and hardworking children, and build a strong, resilient, dignified community around you of similar families.
I disagree strongly with "find you a landwhale" because keeping yourself healthy is something anyone can do and is indicative of a greater life outlook. Someone who doesn't take care of themselves is unlikely to be an effective caretaker for their family and their community. If you've got ten extra pounds, whatever, but being obese is unacceptable and is a personality failing - it's not comparable to being scarred from an accident or happening to be naturally plain looking.
But, I agree with the sentiment that aiming for the highest SMV woman is a trap, because SMV has been hacked, doing so rewards status seekers and narcissists. If your goal is fucking, then it makes sense to just aim for whatever you find the most viscerally attractive. When I was living a more degenerate lifestyle I was fine with just having a good time, getting a taste of the highest value of every style, race, etc. of woman I came across, doing as much kinky and decadent shit as I could, always raising the stakes to keep that high going. And while I now regret giving these women the validation of my attention and sex, it was what it was. I saw it as transactional, I was just partying, I knew none of these women were going to be meaningful fixtures in my life.
But of course values and lifestyle are more important for a meaningful, lasting relationship. The kind of relationship where you make a family and build a community around you as I'm trying to do. You aren't likely to get that from the party girls and instathots who look good riding your cock. You have to find a woman who will be a nurturing and protective mother, who'll be a hub of the community, who's reliable and responsible and wants to succeed at these more transcendent things in life, not just collect double-taps. And, yes, you want her to be fertile and genetically fit (the usual things which SMV reflected traditionally, until it became a parody of itself), but that is not necessarily (I would go so far as to say that is unlikely to be) the "hottest" girl around.
Find yourself a good woman. It's hard. They're out there, and their numbers are growing as everyone gets sick of this atomized, meaningless clown world, but it's still hard to find. But that's what any good man has to do - find that woman, be an honorable man with her, raise honorable, healthy, and hardworking children, and build a strong, resilient, dignified community around you of similar families.
whitewashedblackguy
Kingfisher
WombRaider sees this as all or nothing. Singled out one part of my post, and took it out of context. No mention of filtering girls for relationship quality or anything.
You have to see if they’re gonna be worth your time, irregardless of their SMV. I don’t use points anymore. Is she cute? Is she cool? Ok then.
Edit: too harsh
You have to see if they’re gonna be worth your time, irregardless of their SMV. I don’t use points anymore. Is she cute? Is she cool? Ok then.
Edit: too harsh
It's admittedly anecdotal, but I have to agree re discrepancy in SMV to maintain a relationship. Every time I attempt to engage a girl who's SMV is at parity or slightly lower than mine it's a complete shitshow. Only when there's a significant differential does the girl show genuine interest and affection.
I suppose the counter argument is I simply have weak game?
I suppose the counter argument is I simply have weak game?
whitewashedblackguy
Kingfisher
Maybe, but a lot of things come into play. Gotta cool wardrobe that fits your personality? You fit? Confident?
You gotta be the best you to attract the girls best for you. Even if she’s in some other country. ^.^
You gotta be the best you to attract the girls best for you. Even if she’s in some other country. ^.^
Hawkwood said:
I am not forcing a false dichotomy. I do not claim that homely and obese women are somehow made of superior moral fiber. They are not.
There is the matter, however, that they haven't been showered in as much attention their whole lives, and so may be less entitled. They are also more likely to cultivate talents and positive character traits, as compared to prettier women. Have you ever been to a foreign country and noticed that pretty women rarely speak good English, but plain-looking ones often do? Homely girls study harder.
More importantly, you need an SMV gap. The gap encourages her to act right. It's that simple.
I didn't invent this concept -- it's been touted in the manosphere for years. Usually it's said that you need a 1 to 2 point gap, but nowadays I believe it should be 2 to 3 points. If you are a male 9 or 10, then sure, you can date 6s, 7s or maybe even an 8. Most of us aren't in that range, so we need to stick with 5s and below.
Get you a girl who looks at you like this:
whitewashedblackguy
Kingfisher
The good thing is that men’s smv is more than just looks. That's been touted by the manosphere too. Keep improving yourself instead of settling for less. That girl in the pic looks like she's close to the wall, and it's staged anyways.
Infertile=no kids=pointless. Fertility is ~ 90% of a women's smv.
The real reason to get into relationships is to find a potential mother. Who tf wants to have ugly kids? That just makes their life harder, especially if it's a girl.
You owe it to your future offspring to get the most attractive, sane mama you can get, so she better look good. If she doesn't, you're being selfish. You can settle if you want, but your bloodline would be better off if you make yourself the person that gets high smv women instead of shunning them.
Infertile=no kids=pointless. Fertility is ~ 90% of a women's smv.
The real reason to get into relationships is to find a potential mother. Who tf wants to have ugly kids? That just makes their life harder, especially if it's a girl.
You owe it to your future offspring to get the most attractive, sane mama you can get, so she better look good. If she doesn't, you're being selfish. You can settle if you want, but your bloodline would be better off if you make yourself the person that gets high smv women instead of shunning them.
whitewashedblackguy
Kingfisher
delete. I've gotta rein it back a bit.
It's pretty obvious that when men collaborate and collude, we can accomplish amazing things: pioneering new land, building incredible empires, inventing products and services that change the world. Men are vastly superior to women when working on a team in this regard.
However, men are piss poor at creating any sort of collaborative brotherhood when it comes to social dating situations, especially compared to women. I've never experienced a strange man helping me in any sort of dating situation. Women seem to go out of their way to help strangers in dating situations by cockblocking, spreading rumors, letting each other know which man is a "Creep." It's like a covert, underground sisterhood meant to protect each other. I've even tried reaching out to women's jilted ex boyfriends in order to gain intel on a situation, no response.
Unfortunately men will never be on parity with women in the dating market. Men are too individualistic to create a nationwide brotherhood.
If men decided to work together, we could create an app within weeks that provides anonymous reviews on women, estimated notch count, potential for ghost/flake/cheat, etc. We all know that if this app was created, it would be torn down in seconds-by other men, not women.
Every man for himself.
However, men are piss poor at creating any sort of collaborative brotherhood when it comes to social dating situations, especially compared to women. I've never experienced a strange man helping me in any sort of dating situation. Women seem to go out of their way to help strangers in dating situations by cockblocking, spreading rumors, letting each other know which man is a "Creep." It's like a covert, underground sisterhood meant to protect each other. I've even tried reaching out to women's jilted ex boyfriends in order to gain intel on a situation, no response.
Unfortunately men will never be on parity with women in the dating market. Men are too individualistic to create a nationwide brotherhood.
If men decided to work together, we could create an app within weeks that provides anonymous reviews on women, estimated notch count, potential for ghost/flake/cheat, etc. We all know that if this app was created, it would be torn down in seconds-by other men, not women.
Every man for himself.
I share no responsibility. I've treated plenty of women "nicely" and "properly" with interactions and relationships going nowhere.
There's something in the hard-wiring of their little hamster minds that makes they submissive and supplicating to alpha male traits and behaviors.
So be it!! It's not my job to fix them or save them. It's their fathers' job.
There's something in the hard-wiring of their little hamster minds that makes they submissive and supplicating to alpha male traits and behaviors.
So be it!! It's not my job to fix them or save them. It's their fathers' job.
This business about a womens SMV out of 10. We could meet a stunningly beautiful girl with a good figure, but she might have shall we say private parts that are not to your taste. In your eyes that would down her to a 7. Maybe I'm just fussy but I'd take the not so slim girl with the other bits that are desireable. What I'm saying is the SMV is subjective
Graft said:
Great post.
You see this rub off around here frequently. One of the reasons why so many of the accomplished or smart guys around here have been successful, and post in a way that shares or shows this, is that they are very competitive and individualistic, which leads to great analysis. As such, this leads towards more of a lone wolf phenomenon since we are very much an accountability crowd and have disdain for whining or complaining, however real or accurate it may reflect real life. Some guys are great and some will interact, but let me just say this ... there is a high number (not majority) of guys around here who will share some things, but when push comes to shove act like if they told you XYZ you would fly out to fucking Siberia and ruin their game, just by giving general advice. I find that odd, but it's just a bug in the vast number of features that typify guys that are attracted to sites like this, or are trying to make their way, in a better way.
^ I disagree in principle. Theres probably more actionable knowledge in the game archives here than anywhere else in the world IMO.
"Actionable" being the operative word. The number of passive lurkers and vocal whiners have always outnumbered those willing to take action. History shows that truism is as old as mankind
"...Those that help themselves"
"Actionable" being the operative word. The number of passive lurkers and vocal whiners have always outnumbered those willing to take action. History shows that truism is as old as mankind
"...Those that help themselves"