What vaccines to give your children?

The Beast1

Peacock
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
I'm not trying to judge you. I also gave my oldest daughter all the recommended shots and didn't even think twice about it. She is seemingly fine, although as she gets older she does appear to have some attention deficit issues. She also catches colds much more often than me or my wife. Is that related to the dozens of shots she received while she was a baby? Who knows, but I wouldn't discount it out of hand. Is the CDC going to study to find out? I highly doubt it.
Are you sending your kids to daycare or school? The more common sense explanation is that they're catching simple bugs from children in an environment like that is dirty than the average office.

As for ADD, that's a larger debate. I hate school as it is and like Montessori or home schooling for k-6 children.

I don't know when you were a baby, but the number of shots kids receive now is the highest it's ever been. Starting in the early 90s, they've been adding new shots at a very high pace.
I have my immunization records from my childhood and they match what are presently being recommend to my children. My immunization card list shows I have been given:
DTP
MMR
Polio (IPV)
Hib
Hepatitis B
Varicella
Hepatitis A
HPV

I didn't get the pneuomococcal vaccine (which is now recommended). Our pediatrician said unless our kids go to daycare then he doesn't advise getting the rotavirus and flu vaccine since their efficacy is similar. They guess which strains are going to be dominant for a year and develop the shot that way.

So that's 3 new vaccines that different from what are on my immunization card. Maybe 3 is considered a lot for you? I don't.

From what I've seen, they only tested the safety of most of these vaccines for a few weeks, which obviously will not reveal any longer-term neurological or other chronic health issues. Especially for babies, where these things wouldn't become apparent until the babies are older. Where is the multi decade long trial process that you're talking about?
Where are you getting this information? Antivaccine websites or pubmeb?

Google 'Vaccine name' clinical trials. You'll have to dig through pubmed and read through what was posted.

My wife was on a phase 3 trial for a breast cancer treatment drug that was developed in the early 00s and was just entering its phase 3 trial in 2014 to give you a rough idea of how long they take to enter the market.



I have not yet given my 4 month old son any vaccines, and he does seem to be developing much quicker than what I remember from my daughter. He is very verbal and responsive. He has yet to develop any kind of illness beyond a mild cold for a few days. Obviously this is anecdotal and my memory could be wrong. What I do remember is that she got fairly sick by this time in her life. Lots of congestion, cough, runny nose, a pretty bad cold or flu.
A sample size of 2 and you claim yourself you doubt your own memory of it. As I said earlier, was your daughter in a daycare or around other lots of children?
From what I've seen, this amounts to maybe a couple dozen kids on a yearly basis. From a statistics point of view, it's basically zero. There is also a lot of reason to think that sanitation, not immunizations, were the primary factor causing the decline of disease mortality in the 20th century. I believe even the CDC has acknowledged this, though I don't have the link on hand.

I do think immunizations likely provide some protection against catching the disease in question, at least temporarily, but at what cost? I don't see that this has been adequately studied.

Why won't the CDC do a large study comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated children over a long period of time? It seems necessary considering we've more than doubled the required shots that babies have to take in the last 30 years. All of these vaccines are safety tested in isolation, never in combination with other shots. They also are not tested against placebos, from what I've seen, but other vaccines.

Then there's the fact that vaccine makers are immune from liability...


The thing is that many parents claim that their children regressed in the autism shortly after receiving a vaccination (often MMR, but others as well). I've seen a survey done where roughly 50% of parents attributed their child's autism to vaccinations. That's a lot of anecdotes to just dismiss the theory out of hand.

In addition, the CDC dogmatically claims "vaccines do not cause autism" (similar to how they dogmatically claim the COVID shots are "safe and "effective"), but if you actually look at the research supporting this that has not been proven. At best they can claim "MMR vaccines do not cause autism". They obviously do not want to actually research this in depth, maybe because they're scared of what they'll find? Either way, I think there are probably multiple causes of autism, not just vaccines, but the spike of Autism does seem to correlate with the explosion of recommended vaccinations since the early 90s.
It sounds like you've made up your mind so why did you bother making this thread? Don't give your kids the vaccine. It's your choice to make.
 

STG

Woodpecker
Whether you eat it or inject it, the body breaks it down the same way. I don't know how to explain it any other way. Just because something goes through the stomach, doesn't mean it will break it down.
So an infant has the same detox system that an adult does?

At what age does a child have a fully functioning detox system to clear out toxins and metals?

Hepatic function and physiology in the newborn

The liver develops from progenitor cells into a well-differentiated organ in which bile secretion can be observed by 12 weeks' gestation. Full maturity takes up to two years after birth to be achieved
You come from an esteemed medical family, why would you inject an infant with something containing toxins before their liver is fully developed?
 

STG

Woodpecker
I agree, what's wrong with survival of the fittest? God must have willed the child to measles caused blindness and deafness. Maybe God knew the child was going to be a sinner in his future and caused this end result as pre-punishment. At least he has lifelong immunity!

What percentage of children who became infected with the measles became blind and deaf?

vaccine-secrets-part-14-image-measles.jpg
 

The Beast1

Peacock
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
So an infant has the same detox system that an adult does?

At what age does a child have a fully functioning detox system to clear out toxins and metals?

Hepatic function and physiology in the newborn


You come from an esteemed medical family, why would you inject an infant with something containing toxins before their liver is fully developed?
From your link:
Full [liver] maturity takes up to two years after birth to be achieved,
This was informative.

So we should instead be moving the vaccine schedule up for children to 2 years of age since that is when liver function is at full capacity.

This actually sounds pretty reasonable. The vaccine schedule was probably devised because prior to covid parents had to send their young children to daycare. Since we don't have to, for my next kid that pops out, i'll wait 2 years. Our pediatrician is pretty based and would be cool waiting since we don't do daycare or expose the kids to anyone outside of the family.

But I bet you're going to continue throwing the baby out with the bathwater too. :laugh:

What percentage of children who became infected with the measles became blind and deaf?

vaccine-secrets-part-14-image-measles.jpg
Not sure what your disingenuous graph has to do with your question.

To answer the question for blindness: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14998696/
Measles blindness is the single leading cause of blindness among children in low income countries, accounting for an estimated 15,000 to 60,000 cases of blindness per year. There is a close synergism between measles and vitamin A deficiency that can result in xerophthalmia, with corneal ulceration, keratomalacia, and subsequent corneal scarring or phthisis bulbi. High-dose oral vitamin A supplementation is recommended for all children with measles in developing countries. Higher measles immunization coverage to interrupt measles transmission and interventions aimed at improving vitamin A nutriture of children are the main strategies to prevent measles blindness.
So without vaccination with a measles infection, you can supplement vitamin A to reduce (not eliminate) the risk of blindness.

And for hearing loss:
Prior to the effective vaccination, measles was thought to be the cause of severe to profound hearing loss in 4% to 9% of deaf patients (Suboti, 1976). Hearing loss resulting from measles infection is typically bilateral, moderate to profound SNHL and may follow measles encephalitis (McKenna, 1997).
So wait 2 years, get the MMR vaccine, eliminate measles entirely. Not unreasonable. Today I learned something new.
 
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gent

Sparrow
Catholic
So that's 3 new vaccines that different from what are on my immunization card. Maybe 3 is considered a lot for you? I don't.
I guess we are around the same age. Many were added in the last 30 years, see: https://childrenshealthdefense.org/...dc-recommended-vaccine-schedule-1986-vs-2019/

Where are you getting this information? Antivaccine websites or pubmeb?

Google 'Vaccine name' clinical trials. You'll have to dig through pubmed and read through what was posted.
I got this information from Del Bigtree at the Informed Consent network, but he cites the actual clinical trials. Unfortunately, they are behind a paywall, so I can't reference the exact text. But he claims that, for example, the Hepatitis B vaccine trials only monitored for safety issues for 7 days after giving the injections. They monitored the efficacy for much longer. Here is the source if you're interested: https://www.icandecide.org/vaccine-safety-debate/

My wife was on a phase 3 trial for a breast cancer treatment drug that was developed in the early 00s and was just entering its phase 3 trial in 2014 to give you a rough idea of how long they take to enter the market.
Yes the claim is that vaccine testing requirements are much less strict than normal drugs.

It sounds like you've made up your mind so why did you bother making this thread? Don't give your kids the vaccine. It's your choice to make.
Not really, just been doing a ton of research especially these last 2 weeks.
 

anti-science

 
Banned
Gnostic or New Age
It sounds like you've made up your mind so why did you bother making this thread?

And you haven't made up your mind? This thread is very important and educational aside from the typical ignorant mainstream views about vaccines from pro-vaxxers. You will find nothing but fallacious arguments and appeal to authority when we have more than enough studies and anecdotal evidence to show the opposite. Easy to dismiss anecdotes when your kids aren't effected which shows the lack of empathy displayed by these NPCs. Watch vaxxed 1&2 and read the many horror stories but you trust big pharma ultimately so I guess we can deny all of them as well as all of the covid vaccine related damage right?

It is great your kids are doing good after vaccine but that is a strawman response. No one is claiming that every child will be harmed by vaccines. Even the nastiest medications will not affect everyone and some might not experience any (noticeable) side-effects. It is clear that a lot of these vaccines have toxins that can cross the blood-brain barrier among other problems. Vaccines are nothing but a voodoo experiment supposedly started by snake-oil salesman Edward Jenner when he tried very unsuccessfully to cure small pox hypothesizing that cow milkers had a similar version of it and therefore proceeded to inject cow and later horse puss into kids. You can guess the results...still didn't prevent. Must be hard to deal with the fact that un-vaccinated kids have better outcomes even in the smaller problems like allergies asthma ect I wonder why?

Whooping cough vaccine that was brought up here is an absolute joke of a vaccine. High risk low reward and it can literally be cured with Vitamin C. Most of these diseases flourished in time of poverty linked industrialization and disposition of sewage full of toxins. It can be traced back to lack of nutrients, heavy exposure to toxins (read about the use of DDT) and many other factors aside from the virus theory. Problem is pro-vaxxers have bigger faith in the stories that big pharma tells them.

I encourage everyone to watch this series for knowledge that is hidden and denied but is the other side of the story:

 

The Beast1

Peacock
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
I guess we are around the same age. Many were added in the last 30 years, see: https://childrenshealthdefense.org/...dc-recommended-vaccine-schedule-1986-vs-2019/
21 of those (Rotavirus and influenza) are unnecessary. I've never gotten a yearly flu shot and rotavirus is made the same way as the flu vaccine. Our pediatrician said not to bother since we don't send our kids to daycare.

I got the same level of boosters throughout the 90s and 00s. My immunization records match the chart pretty closely. Maybe i'm ahead of the curve? Either way, boosters are boosters and you are free to decline them.
I got this information from Del Bigtree at the Informed Consent network, but he cites the actual clinical trials. Unfortunately, they are behind a paywall, so I can't reference the exact text. But he claims that, for example, the Hepatitis B vaccine trials only monitored for safety issues for 7 days after giving the injections. They monitored the efficacy for much longer. Here is the source if you're interested: https://www.icandecide.org/vaccine-safety-debate/


Yes the claim is that vaccine testing requirements are much less strict than normal drugs.


Not really, just been doing a ton of research especially these last 2 weeks.
Fair enough.

And you haven't made up your mind? This thread is very important and educational aside from the typical ignorant mainstream views about vaccines from pro-vaxxers. You will find nothing but fallacious arguments and appeal to authority when we have more than enough studies and anecdotal evidence to show the opposite. Easy to dismiss anecdotes when your kids aren't effected which shows the lack of empathy displayed by these NPCs. Watch vaxxed 1&2 and read the many horror stories but you trust big pharma ultimately so I guess we can deny all of them as well as all of the covid vaccine related damage right?

It is great your kids are doing good after vaccine but that is a strawman response. No one is claiming that every child will be harmed by vaccines. Even the nastiest medications will not affect everyone and some might not experience any (noticeable) side-effects. It is clear that a lot of these vaccines have toxins that can cross the blood-brain barrier among other problems. Vaccines are nothing but a voodoo experiment supposedly started by snake-oil salesman Edward Jenner when he tried very unsuccessfully to cure small pox hypothesizing that cow milkers had a similar version of it and therefore proceeded to inject cow and later horse puss into kids. You can guess the results...still didn't prevent. Must be hard to deal with the fact that un-vaccinated kids have better outcomes even in the smaller problems like allergies asthma ect I wonder why?

Whooping cough vaccine that was brought up here is an absolute joke of a vaccine. High risk low reward and it can literally be cured with Vitamin C. Most of these diseases flourished in time of poverty linked industrialization and disposition of sewage full of toxins. It can be traced back to lack of nutrients, heavy exposure to toxins (read about the use of DDT) and many other factors aside from the virus theory. Problem is pro-vaxxers have bigger faith in the stories that big pharma tells them.

I encourage everyone to watch this series for knowledge that is hidden and denied but is the other side of the story:


No. Today I learned that I should wait 2 years before starting the vaccine schedule. That I'm cool with.

I'll say it again: I look forward to our vaccine free future so we can really see how this all shakes out.
 

anti-science

 
Banned
Gnostic or New Age
To answer the thread question: what vaccines to give to a child or even an adult?

Absolutely none. Zero. My grandparents generation none of them vaccinated yet lived longer and in great health.
Even as an adult you should avoid all vaccines. The travel ones are useless and have nasty side effects that creep up on you . If you are a female then I pray you avoid pure toxins like Gardasil that can literally paralyze you.
 

DanielH

Hummingbird
Moderator
Orthodox
I don't care to read the studies because I come from a family of doctors (pediatricians and GPs ) who have direct anecdotal professional experience spanning from the late 80s to the present observing the growth of babies into teens both vaccinated and unvaccinated. Their own anecdotal experience says that they observed no instances of harm ever from any vaccines over those decades, spanning thousands of visits and patients. I trust their own experiences over the standard liberal, "muh studies" trope.
This is such a comically absurd comment - you should be ashamed of yourself. Individual doctors are incapable of noticing the trends these studies research. We're talking outcomes of people 20, 40, 70 years after being vaccinated, and the group of unvaccinated is minuscule in relative terms. In order for this anecdotal experience to be worth anything, you would need a group of very old doctors with lots of clinical experience who worked with children who were and weren't vaccinated, and for them to check up with them well into adulthood. These studies we're talking about show that adults who were vaccinated as children have significantly worse health outcomes than the unvaccinated. We're talking substantially more cancer, behavioral disorders, asthma, etc. If a kid received the Hep B vaccine for example, and that weakened their immune system so that ten days later they ended up hospitalized with pneumonia, how would a doctor possibly link those two? They can't, even though it is perfectly feasible that intravenously injected hard metals and strange biological compounds into an infant would harm their immune system. Let's look at the Hep B vaccine ingredients... "Aluminum hydroxide" are you kidding me? Seriously? A compound known to cause neurological disorders in mice at the same relative dosage given to soldiers? "Exactly what I want in my newborn" said no sane person ever.

This is the problem, the pro vaccine people are the ones who refuse to look at the data from the other side. I almost never hear of parents who seriously look into vaccines come out with the conclusion that "yep, we're going to follow the schedule as recommended." Even the most normie parents come away with the conclusion of "we should probably space these out more and wait until the child is older."

You'll scoff at the quality of anti-vaxx websites, but tell me, where are they getting their funding? They're not getting government funds, health insurance company funds, they are not getting any approved funding from any resources. They're getting their funding from concerned parents and especially stay at home moms. Do you think a researcher can publish one of these studies and still get funding from Johns Hopkins/the US government/ Big Pharma?

My family just got booted from a pediatric office because we refused the Hep B vaccine, despite my wife having a severe adverse reaction to that in the past. It almost killed her, and no doctor she saw agree to it, like it's just a fluke and even though it started right after the vaccine it must be something else, though they couldn't even begin to guess what. There is no compassion, no attempt at compromise. "You don't want our jab? Get out, because then we don't get the financial incentives for having vaccinated patients. Your kid can die for all we care."

You're criticizing us for throwing the baby out with the bathwater so to speak, well the Amish have thrown out all of that stuff and they have far less cancer, autism, heart disease, than we do. Maybe we need to throw out the baby with the bathwater because the entire medical establishment is now built on poorly trialed vaccines with dubious ingredients and origins that doesn't care one iota about prevention unless it's in the form of a vaccine and only cares about what drugs they can prescribe to mask the symptoms. We would be better off if we scrapped it all and tried to build up our knowledge again using actual long term, double blind control trials that looked at the outcome of the whole person, not just if anything was noticeable a week post injection. Give me a break.
 

The Beast1

Peacock
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
jerry-seinfeld-enough.gif


I'm out. Y'all will have your vaccine free future thanks to the covid vaccine. I'll sit on the side and hold my judgement for how this all shakes out. Cheers!
 

gent

Sparrow
Catholic
@DanielH Sorry to hear you guys got kicked out. My wife got shamed by the doctor last time she took our baby in and they pulled up his immunization chart. We've avoided the normal well child checkups so far because of that. We're currently looking into finding a naturopathic pediatrician.
 

Prores

Robin
Orthodox
If you hold the status quo vaccine positions expect to catch some degree of heat in here. You hold the viewpoints of the dominant culture.

If you are a Christian you are legitimizing the use of infanticide in medical products.

And if you are an Orthodox Christian, or seek to be, please understand that our most recent canonized saint warned us 30 years ago that vaccines would be the system by which the antichrist would dominate the world. You’ll have to excuse me for being skeptical of extreme top-down pressure to take injections produced with murdered children.

And blindness from measles could be a beautiful blessing if God deems it necessary for your salvation. I’m reminded of the akathist to St Nikiforos

“Leprosy devastated your physical vision, until finally, O Saint Nikiforos, you reached the horrible pain of complete blindness in your earthly eyes; but you saw the surpassing beauty of God, whose likeness you reveal to those who cry out
unto you in faith”

We don’t need to run from disease or discomfort, we are not to live as cowards, and this life is only temporary.
 

san26

Pigeon
Orthodox
If you hold the status quo vaccine positions expect to catch some degree of heat in here. You hold the viewpoints of the dominant culture.

If you are a Christian you are legitimizing the use of infanticide in medical products.

And if you are an Orthodox Christian, or seek to be, please understand that our most recent canonized saint warned us 30 years ago that vaccines would be the system by which the antichrist would dominate the world. You’ll have to excuse me for being skeptical of extreme top-down pressure to take injections produced with murdered children.

And blindness from measles could be a beautiful blessing if God deems it necessary for your salvation. I’m reminded of the akathist to St Nikiforos

“Leprosy devastated your physical vision, until finally, O Saint Nikiforos, you reached the horrible pain of complete blindness in your earthly eyes; but you saw the surpassing beauty of God, whose likeness you reveal to those who cry out
unto you in faith”

We don’t need to run from disease or discomfort, we are not to live as cowards, and this life is only temporary.

Yes completely, agree, we must pray for "thebeast1", his behavior is not Christian. You are inviting the demons , when you inject those things into your body which are made from aborted fetal tissue, almost all vaccines use these cell lines. "In no case, can a person call themselves a Christian when they fear death. When a person fears dying they become an idolater or an atheist, instead a Christian should long to die, the Saints wanted to die..." --Father Savvas Agioritis
 

MtnMan

Kingfisher
I'm out. Y'all will have your vaccine free future thanks to the covid vaccine. I'll sit on the side and hold my judgement for how this all shakes out. Cheers!
We knew vaccines were complete shite long before covid. There is 100 years of data out there to see how it all shakes out, its only going to get worse now that the entire world is getting a covid shot every 3 months.
 

greenwolf

Woodpecker
Protestant
Honestly I am tempted to give them 0 (even though I had maybe too many). Maybe tetanus if I live in Africa. But these last two years learned me to not trust anything told and the need to independently verify. Tetanus has been claimed by one doc I follow to be acceptable.

I went to school with a girl whose parents was very much into natural and Chinese medicine and she had 0 vaccines. And she was not sick even for one day during all these years.
 

MtnMan

Kingfisher
Honestly I am tempted to give them 0 (even though I had maybe too many). Maybe tetanus if I live in Africa. But these last two years learned me to not trust anything told and the need to independently verify. Tetanus has been claimed by one doc I follow to be acceptable.

I went to school with a girl whose parents was very much into natural and Chinese medicine and she had 0 vaccines. And she was not sick even for one day during all these years.
My child and our friends 2 children who have never had vaccines are extremely healthy, never any illness, not even a cold and no chronic issues. It should be common sense that vaccines are not healthy for you. You cannot vaccinate your way into health. It is a sick cult.
 

Clive Grant

Chicken
Protestant
My child and our friends 2 children who have never had vaccines are extremely healthy, never any illness, not even a cold and no chronic issues. It should be common sense that vaccines are not healthy for you. You cannot vaccinate your way into health. It is a sick cult.
It's my position that a child should never receive any type of vaccination whatsoever, unless of medical emergency (bitten by rabid dog etc).

Back a few years ago, one of my good friends who is a fellow brother in Christ had a child. He delivered the baby himself and refused to use a hospital... he did that because he heard stories from others that immediately after giving birth to a baby, certain hospitals would try to vaxx it. Inject a new born baby.

If for some medical reason you are forced to use a hospital to deliver the baby. Have the Doctor and staff give you a room, DO NOT let them take away the mother or baby without you right there. They will try and you will refuse. Or these freaks may inject your newborn child.

What's wrong with this world. You don't kill unborn babies. And you don't vaxx newborn babies. You don't need a vaccine just to be born.
 

DanielH

Hummingbird
Moderator
Orthodox
he did that because he heard stories from others that immediately after giving birth to a baby, certain hospitals would try to vaxx it. Inject a new born baby.

If for some medical reason you are forced to use a hospital to deliver the baby. Have the Doctor and staff give you a room, DO NOT let them take away the mother or baby without you right there. They will try and you will refuse. Or these freaks may inject your newborn child.

What's wrong with this world. You don't kill unborn babies. And you don't vaxx newborn babies. You don't need a vaccine just to be born.
They wanted my to give my newborn son the Hep B vax in the hospital at like a day old. Instead of calling it the Hep B vax they should break it down by ingredients. "Would you like your son to have the aluminum hydroxide, yeast protein, sodium chloride, disodium phosphate dihydrate, sodium dihydrogen phosphate dihydrate, virus concoction injected into your babies veins? It will help them not get sick after performing violent acts of sodomy and drug use." No reasonable parent would say yes to that. It seems like one of the most absurd vaccines, and they try to push you into giving it to your newborn child when you're sleep deprived and couldn't reasonably do research on it while quarantined in the hospital. Maybe they try to give you the most ridiculous vaccine first in such a situation so that it eases you into the less ridiculous ones without asking too many questions.
 

gent

Sparrow
Catholic
If for some medical reason you are forced to use a hospital to deliver the baby. Have the Doctor and staff give you a room, DO NOT let them take away the mother or baby without you right there. They will try and you will refuse. Or these freaks may inject your newborn child.
The nurses at my hospital didn't seem to care at all. Didn't even try to convince us, like it was just a box they had to check off. I was surprised, especially since we live in a very blue liberal area. I'm guessing they're used to parents declining that one.
 
jerry-seinfeld-enough.gif


I'm out. Y'all will have your vaccine free future thanks to the covid vaccine. I'll sit on the side and hold my judgement for how this all shakes out. Cheers!
It's not as if we don't value your input Beast (at least I value it for argumentative purposes). This whole thing is going to have to be one of the paradigms that a civilization must drop from enforcing ,mandating, or requiring for certain access to certain things (travel, positions, attendance in places) in order to truly move to an expansionist level. Naturally, people will not desire to get injected with anything once the whole farce of medicine has been revealed to the lowest of laymen, but for those who choose to believe in the practice of this little act, I would not stop them from doing it to themselves. Parallel societies can exist, even divided among lines such as these, when proximity is not an issue.

One also has to forget that not everyone may have a rock solid immune system or good genetics like you or your children likely have, there are many people alive today who shouldn't be (not in the moral sense, but shouldn't as in the genetic sense due to people who would not breed a thousand years ago having a plump litter under the pathological altruism of western governments, people who are almost guaranteed to have their survival ensured at the expense of the natural order of things). These people do not benefit from vaccines, and many of them in the lower throngs of society live their entire lives with massive brain damage, schizophrenic hallucinations, violent urges lower than that of animals, and rampant diseases of the blood (a bloodline curse perhaps) that would almost make one think "if I were an architect of social engineering on the road to Luciferian supremacy, I would pave my road to hell with the best intentions by injecting these bottom-feeders with chemicals to ensure they do not keep filing up the land that I have promised for myself, taking up space, breathing the same air as I do," etc. There are other avenues of sterilizing these people than injections however that are being funded and proliferated profusely (planned parenthood, homosexuality, nutrient-empty food, drugs) though because I am neither one of these people on the top, nor the bottom, I cannot advocate anything that comes out of this hierarchy.

For the topic of this thread, I can meet you halfway and say that all parents should wait a few years after the birth of their child, then study everything they can before making an informed decision on whether or not to inject anything into their child. Though I will not put anything in my children, which has led to me not having any with the several wife candidates who disagreed with me. Hell of an issue to be stubborn on, but no capitulation, even in the face of annihilation is what I live by. If the minimum 3 year wait period was adopted, many of the problems and injuries from injections would be drastically lower in number.
 
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