What will it take to break America out of its delusion?

bigrich

Robin
I agree that America is decaying. What will stop the decay is the return to traditional family units and respect for fathers. However, I don't see that happening.
 

K Galt

Woodpecker
Anabasis, good post....but context is key. Much of what you write about appears true on it's face, but increasingly is not. 40 years ago, almost your whole post would be absolutely true, but what we have now is this illusion that things are still this way, but increasingly, they are not. This is what "red pill" on the interwebz is all about - recognizing all the lies and delusions we are all force fed to maintain the appearance of prosperity and freedom, when both are being rapidly eroded at an exponential pace.

If you live in America and can't take care of yourself you don't deserve to be alive.

We are approaching 50% of the populace who are all receiving some form of Government assistance - WIC, Section 8, SNAP, Student Loans, etc., i.e. more and more Americans are not taking care of themselves.

In the rest of the world, there is no social mobility. In Africa, if you're born middle class you'll die middle class. If you're born poor you'll die poor and no matter how much you fuck up ... if you're lucky enough to be born to the upper class you'll always be on top.

Choose to believe it or not, but this is largely true in the US as well. Most poor born into poverty in the US either end up dead, in jail, on welfare and/or stuck in poor communities their whole lives. The occasional great story of one who beat the odds and escaped the cycle makes for great press for the country....but most poor people in the 21st century USA usually stay poor their whole lives.

Most of the "middle class" are actually serfs working to pay off all the debt to the usurious banking system to acquire the "materialistic" consumerist "middle class" lifestyle. And of course, like most places in the world, the rich upper classes usually stay their.

But yes, your larger point does stand - compared to other places in the world, the US does seem to have socio-economic mobility that most other places do not...thing is, this is increasingly becoming less and less possible.

Note all the folks now graduating from college with worthless degrees and 6 figure student debt having to move back home and work as baristas and waiters to pay off their loans...

In America, it normal for broke college frat boys working side jobs @ Denny's to spend $30-50 a night on drinks @ clubs.

That's because either they are going to school on their parents dime, or they are taking out massive student loans to pay for tuition and housing, and they don't make any payments on those loans until after graduation. Thus, they get to spend their minimum wage earnings on luxuries like overpriced drinks at bars.

In America ... the son of a mailman (John Kasich) or Cuban immigrant bartender (Marco Rubio) can become a Presidential candidate. If you're smart, work hard and obey the law ... there are no limits to your success.

That's what it looks like on the outside...but the reality is far different. Millions of us have all believed what you just wrote as a basic truth of being American, only to find out later just how it is all an illusion to keep us happily enslaved and working. In America, you don't get to run for President unless you get connected to the political party machine and rise through those ranks. Only self-made millionaires and billionaires like Trump and Perot appear to be able to self-finance their candidacies.

Take Obama, for instance. He had wealthy Grandparents that paid for him to attend the most prestigious and expensive Prep-school in Hawaii (tuition at Punahou is more than most State colleges in the US), then he moved to Chicago and got connected (many of those connections made at Punahou) with the political establishment to work his way in the party machine to become President. Whatever one wants to say about Obama, he definitely had economic privilege growing up in Hawaii amongst the wealthy class. Citing his Father's birth has exactly zero relevance to how he became President.

As for working hard and obeying the law to stay out of trouble...

Many a man did exactly that, only to find out his cheating wife got to divorce him, take away all his property, keep the children and he gets to pay for it all in a form of indentured servitude, thanks to the family court system of the "freest country on the planet."

Or how about a young man working hard, obeying the law and playing by the rules suddenly losing it all because of a false rape accusation?

The examples are legion, but all I'm really trying to say is that while the picture of prosperity of the American Dream looks great, the reality is it's not it's all cracked up to be.

Unless you guys have lived it 3rd world countries it's very hard to explain.

While I haven't lived in the 3rd world, I have visited some of those countries and I do have an idea of what you're talking about.

But compare a man in poverty in the third world who at least has a family and means of self-sustenance versus the divorced American man with a car and an iphone and air conditioning, but no custody and paying child support to a hostile ex-wife that turned his kids against him...ask him if he'd give it all up to just have his kids with him on a daily basis, you'd be surprised at just how much he really alues all these material things you think of as indicators of America being a great country.

Things in America are not as they seem, and as time goes on, more and more people are waking up to it....and there's far more to achieving "happiness" and experiencing freedom then economic prosperity and material wealth.

That's all I'm trying to say.
 

bigrich

Robin
In terms of money, more people are making big bucks. But, you could also make this kind of money and be location independent.

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BURNΞR

Ostrich
Agnostic
Women can front toughness because they are sheltered from consequences. They can dial the police on their cell phone if they need protection. They don't worry about studying or working hard because of affirmative action laws and thirsty men and daddy government propping them up if they fail. Every single women I see daily actually tells me they have no motivation to better themselves. Why would they? Why go to the gym, study, or make bank when everything is provided to you?

It has come to the point in our history where the state has severely undercut a man's value. The welfare state in the US provides enough for women such that a man has to make at least 70K to even be comparable. And even if a man does make more she is incentivised to drop a kid and leave him to collect from both. We live in a time now where phenotype trumps merit and working hard. A tall man with clown skill outshines a stable productive man.

Eventually these men wise up and leave. They find ways to evade taxes and what you are left with is Greece. Last time I checked this place wasn't any stronghold of feminism and women here spread their legs open for a big Mac or a sandwich.
 

Walker

Robin
In the nicer parts of europe, high incomes get taxed more.

But this is offset by the fact that for a born poor but smart and ambitious person, the road from 5 figure pre-tax income to 7+ figure pre-tax income is a lot longer in the US.

That's because the american starts out having to work way more hours for less money, meaning slower accumulation of savings and less spare time for him to educate himself using the free tools all first worlders have. And when he finally becomes financially secure enough to start his own business or start negotiating hardball at prestigious 9-to-5s, there's a new set of problems: A nosier government when it comes to dictating a small business owner can and cannot do. Bosses that are more greedy, and more callous towards their employees, at the prestigious 9-to-5s.

If I could have done my early 20s blue collar work somewhere like denmark or the netherlands, I absolutely would have, but I didn't know that was an option at the time. I know now that it's a little extra work due to the hooks the US has in the global finance system (you have a big one time expenditure of effort at the start to get a european bank account as an american citizen, plus some extra paperwork every year on tax day), but when I was younger I thought it was impossible.
 

Belgrano

Ostrich
Gold Member
Reading Anabasis' great post:

get


Anabasis to Desta said:
In mainland Europe, everybody lives an OK life. Nobody is starving but the opportunity to carve out an exceptional life for yourself and realize your potential is non-existent. You get taxed 50% of your income ... innovation, hard work and hustle is discouraged. The system is already established. You're allowed to become a glorified slave but no chance to build your own Empire. A Surgeon lives almost the same lifestyle as a guy stacking shelves at Aldi. People don't have the fire and drive to succeed over there like Americans do. In Britain the classes are established & impenetrable. The poor support their local football clubs, get drunk and fight ... the rich do what they've always done.

I mostly agree with this paragraph, but the bold part is obviously a big exaggeration.
We already discussed it at lenght in the Sweden, Germany poorer than most US states thread, so let's not start all over again.
Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages, in the end it's a matter of personal preferences.
Life in Europe is not worse than in the US, it's just different.

A semi-retarded bodybuilder immigrant from Austria (Arnold) can become a Movie-star and governor of the most populous state in the country.

[img=600x400]http://i.imgur.com/4pPT6B4.png[/img]

I know you are probably just joking, but for the record, Arnie allegedly has an IQ of 135.
 

TigerMandingo

 
Banned
Anabasis to Desta said:
Alright I'll explain....

Great post, man. But to quote the Joker, "All you care about is money" :smile:

While it's clearly obvious that there are countless financial opportunities in the US, there are other things that I, personally, value much more than career success. Socially and culturally speaking, the US is not my home and never can be. Forget about the terrible women for a second, it is nearly impossible to build genuine friendships here because people are highly superficial and put on fronts. If you are "redpill", then it's even worse.

I love the US, it's been really good to me, but it simply isn't congruent with my personality and character. Many others feel the same way. Shit, even Mexicans once they're done stacking their cash move back home because they can't stand the solitude!

All in all, yea I agree with you, it's a hell of a lot better than 99% of the world.
 

aeroektar

Pelican
rw95 said:
Unfortunately, I don't think the US will ever break out of its delusion. The damage has been done, and it appears to be too advanced to ever fix. I'm in the same boat as you, early 20s and fed up with things. But at this moment, it appears that we have to face facts. The globalists have won.

We as young men will never have families, children, legacies, financial stability or higher purpose in life. The elites have taken that away from us. The era of finding greener pastures is rapidly coming to an end. Within the next 20 years tops, all greener pastures will be carousel countries. All of them. Women simply have too many options and men don't have enough. The only solution I see is the Aaron Clarey method. Get on the dole, enjoy the decline, and when it all finally breaks down or becomes too much to bear...

If you want to have a defeatist attitude and live with victim mentality you wont make shit out of your life in this country, just look at the typical SJW as a good example, but if you have the strength, the drive, at least average intelligence and enough common sense you can absolutely still have all of those things as an American man. Things have changed, but we have just as much if not more opportunity as our fathers had.

As American men we largely control our own fate. Yes we're currently fighting a narrative that goes against us, but who gives a shit, that's not going to stop you from being successful and getting what you want. Things aren't perfect and they never will be, we have to work with the current situation whether we like it or not, sulking wont get us anywhere.

If your unhappily living in a leftist state, pack up and move to a red state. If your unhappy with American women or just want to leave, build a life that allows you maximum freedom to travel the world and experience all kinds of different women, something so many American dudes on this forum do and you don't even need a large bankrole.

You choose the path and the outcome is squarely on your shoulders.
 

pitt

Hummingbird
Gold Member
TigerMandingo said:
Anabasis to Desta said:
Alright I'll explain....

Great post, man. But to quote the Joker, "All you care about is money" :smile:

While it's clearly obvious that there are countless financial opportunities in the US, there are other things that I, personally, value much more than career success. Socially and culturally speaking, the US is not my home and never can be. Forget about the terrible women for a second, it is nearly impossible to build genuine friendships here because people are highly superficial and put on fronts. If you are "redpill", then it's even worse.

I love the US, it's been really good to me, but it simply isn't congruent with my personality and character. Many others feel the same way. Shit, even Mexicans once they're done stacking their cash move back home because they can't stand the solitude!

All in all, yea I agree with you, it's a hell of a lot better than 99% of the world.

I agree with what you said apart from the making genuine friendships part. I think that applies everywhere, I doubt that it is easier to make meaningful relationships with Thais, Colombians or Dominicans. Actually friendships with those usually lack substance, they don't bring much to the table.
 

VincentVinturi

Pelican
Gold Member
America as it was intended to be never existed.

It came somewhat close, and that era (roughly 1800s-1900s) ushered in the greatest prosperity the world has ever known.

However, the very things that made that prosperity possible -- such as a relatively unregulated economy and relatively small government -- are now gone.

I grew up in the USA in an upper middle class home.

I had a lot of opportunities but I mostly squandered them because I didn't know any better and I didn't really have to earn anything.

School was for morons, you'd have to be stupid not to get good marks.

They don't teach you shit and part of the problem is that most of the schools are government run.

That's the case in Thailand too, and arguably it's way worse here because they not only don't teach you to think, they actively discourage it!

Here's what's great about the USA:

The passport.

But it's a double-edged sword because US citizens are the only ones (except for Eritrean citizens) who get taxed even if they live abroad.

If you want to renounce your citizenship you have to pay for it, and the more you earn the more difficult it is to renounce.

They can even decline your renunciation application and continue milking you.

Everybody's going ape shit over the Panama papers.

Did it ever occur to all the Bernie Sanders crotch sniffers that the people who break their backs for an entire lifetime to earn their fortune and bequeath it to their families don't want to give 50% of it away to Uncle Sam to piss away on bullshit they don't agree with?

America has many pros and many cons.

But let's not get hung up quibbling about them.

The name of the game now is location independence and playing the sovereignty game by leveraging the benefits of other jurisdictions (like Panama/HK/Seychelles for incorporation, Thailand to live in, Singapore to bank in, St. Kitts for a second passport, etc.)

America as it was envisioned is truly a beautiful thing but what you see today is not THAT America.

You couldn't pay me to live in the US now.

What for?

So I can bust my ass, pay ridiculous taxes, deal with shitty American women, see fat slobs everywhere, and listen to liberal latté lappers uptalk about transgender iiiiisues?

I'm glad I have the passport but this America worship needs to stop; we need to call a spade a spade.

Also, let's not forget:

- The NSA is all up in your ass
- Americans have to report foreign bank accounts (FATCA)
- The IRS can ruin your life in a heartbeat (ask anybody who's been audited)
- The whole country is crawling with cops who have little accountability and harass the average citizen. At least in the 3rd world you can pay a small bribe and be on your way. But American cops are already well fed so they're "incorruptible".
- Highest incarceration rate in the world. Thank you prison-industrial complex. You ever been to jail in America? Ok, it's not jail in Uganda but it still fucking sucks and your likelihood of winding up there for utter bullshit skyrockets the minute you step on that soil.
- Homeland security. Ever gone through an American airport after disembarking from an int'l flight from say, Colombia? Prepare for sphincter penetration.
- Alimony, false rape accusations, divorce rape, child support, war on drugs, war on men, war on whites, war on heterosexuals

On the other hand America has some really awesome shit, I won't deny that.

But like I said, your first step should be expanding your horizons through travel and expanding your options through a successful location-independent business.

Then you can come and go as you please, enjoy what you want and eschew what you don't.

A few things I want to come back to the US for (briefly):

- Full blood test battery at Theranos or Wellness FX to get all my health shit sorted
- Brazilian jiu jitsu - California has arguably the best BJJ in the world
- See my fam
 

Easy_C

Peacock
Belgrano said:
I know you are probably just joking, but for the record, Arnie allegedly has an IQ of 135.

High IQ doesn't mean you're "smart". There's plenty of people out there who have off the charts IQs but are not functionally or socially competent.
 

Ringo

Pelican
Gold Member
Anabasis to Desta said:
Alright I'll explain.

Brilliant post, a lot of it resonates with me.

I currently still live in Brazil, where I was born and raised, but I've been thinking more and more about moving to the U.S. Most of my family has already emigrated there and it's remarkable what they've managed to build in a couple of years.

It's indeed hard to explain but like Anabasis wrote, saying that money grows on trees in America is almost an understatement. The daily grind of bureaucracy, incompetence and corruption that one faces in a third world country is what really gets you. Every interaction with the government seems designed for the worst user experience possible. And that's without mentioning the quality of our public services (transportation, health) and of our dear politicians.

Every adult on both sides of my family is either an entrepreneur, self-employed or business owner. The amount of taxes they pay is remarkable and most of all the bureaucracy and the hurdles they have to go through means that you have to either be a masochist or a madman to open up a business here.

Just to add to the point, here's two examples.
Time required to start a company (data from the World Bank):
United States: 6 days
Brazil: 83 days

Ease of doing business (World Bank) - the lower the number the better:
Singapore: 1
United States: 6
Brazil: 116
 

Different T

 
Banned
It's indeed hard to explain but like Anabasis wrote, saying that money grows on trees in America is almost an understatement.

It would be more accurate to state that in America: credit is easily obtained by going into debt (making a promise and being obligated to deliver something in the future), which was derived from the people themselves historically being capable of keeping promises. We shall see how much longer that lasts...

Here is what our elites feed American culture regarding promises and obligations today: wHhPuy-lCfI

Most of my family has already emigrated there and it's remarkable what they've managed to build in a couple of years.

As Arnold can attest, steroids can increase growth. Though they do have certain effects on the immune system...
 

Easy_C

Peacock
Not very long historically. American monetary systems have ALWAYS had a large number of bank failures, because banks would aggressively lend out credit and then whenever there was a run on the bank they were unable to meet their cash obligations and folded. The second national bank was created to address that.


One major problem this time is that we no longer have a real "reserve". The entire point of Federal Reserve as originally created was that it would be funded by bankers as a "reserve" against unexpected losses. Basically imagine if you local neighborhood association all donated some funds together to create an "emergency fund" to repair anyone's house that got burnt down and you've got the Federal Reserve.....catch is that no longer exists because the government began mandating their involvement in government debt, and they now exist to influence and manipulate the economy for political purposes.

What most people don't know is that the bank are being told behind the scenes that there will be no bailout this time: the money simply doesn't exist. We're in a much riskier situation now and I would imagine that is the real reason why most banks are shedding huge numbers of traders.


It's indeed hard to explain but like Anabasis wrote, saying that money grows on trees in America is almost an understatement. The daily grind of bureaucracy, incompetence and corruption that one faces in a third world country is what really gets you. Every interaction with the government seems designed for the worst user experience possible. And that's without mentioning the quality of our public services (transportation, health) and of our dear politicians.

That's the thing: those trends are accelerating exponentially in America.
 

Different T

 
Banned
That's the thing: those trends are accelerating exponentially in America.

The left (and apparently a number of "liberty-loving" right) believe humans are "noble-savages" and that socialization is a detrimental process of repression. The SJW shit is the latest outgrowth.

Relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freudo-Marxism

Here's different perspective:

Man appears, a screaming bundle of flesh, the outcome of mating. He is utterly helpless, his existence hangs upon the nursing he receives. (Bertrand de Jouvenel, The Pure Theory of Politics, Liberty Fund, 57)
 

Gustavus Adolphus

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Interesting to hear all the different perspectives.

While I won't speculate on what the future may hold, a couple things still hold true in the US (particularly in states with good job prospects):

1. Hard work is rewarded. Those that show up to work and excel move up or get recruited to better positions for different companies.

2. If you seek advice and information to pick industries that are in demand, your path will be much easier. Getting out of the ones that will fail in the next decade is just as important if you happen to have been wrong about your initial assessment. This starts with picking a degree or trade to obtain your expertise and education.

3. The key to improving your social and economic status over the long term is living below your means for as long as it takes. Getting your money to work for you earlier rather than later is paramount to a successful future. Putting $30k cash into savings by the time you are 25 (or $60k by 30) makes life much less stressful if you have the discipline to avoid the pitfalls of a materialistic and consumer-driven society.

4. The modern day job market has changed. The days of staying with one company for an entire career and then retiring are pretty much over. These corporations aren't loyal. The job-hopper resume comes under much less scrutiny now, so long as you have solid interviewing skills. What this means is you may need to test the waters with many jobs lasting only a year throughout your mid to late 20's to determine your best course. This should allow you to lose the appearance and naivety of youth, and move to a greater position of strength and negotiation within the job market. By 35, you should be in your ideal industry and have a focused plan to carve out your revenue stream. That could be entrepreneurship, management, or any other big dream you once had. From then on you just need to continue to work each day and decide if you are good where you're at, or if things need to change.

5. Continued from #4, I'll say one more thing and make it the last. The opportunities here are endless for the passionate professional. So many people go to work for a paycheck, and live weekend to weekend, and check to check. When you open your eyes in the morning, if you consistently say to yourself "I don't want to go to work today." -It's time to find something that you'd rather be doing. Even if it's in a good industry or good money, find something else to do. You have to work too damn much in the states to hate your fucking job. Find something you like, and go get that life now. Change takes courage and risk, but it certainly is better than misery for money.
 

Merenguero

Crow
Gold Member
Easy_C said:
Belgrano said:
I know you are probably just joking, but for the record, Arnie allegedly has an IQ of 135.

High IQ doesn't mean you're "smart". There's plenty of people out there who have off the charts IQs but are not functionally or socially competent.

Agreed and they seem to exist by far more in California and New Jersey than anywhere else I've lived or been.
 
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