What's it like to work in consulting?

[polar]

Goodtimez - very interesting, thanks for the perspective.

I've got undergrad in business / finance and about a year in an ops role at a major financial services company, and considering grad school in 1-3 years. Opportunities to move upward in my current role are limited, so my options are either 1) move to other ops roles, possibly sell-side or 2) switch industries.

What sort of advice would you have for someone trying to break into mid-tier consulting (large firm, brand recognition) from another industry?

 

[Goodtimez]

Goodtimez - very interesting, thanks for the perspective.

I've got undergrad in business / finance and about a year in an ops role at a major financial services company, and considering grad school in 1-3 years. Opportunities to move upward in my current role are limited, so my options are either 1) move to other ops roles, possibly sell-side or 2) switch industries.

What sort of advice would you have for someone trying to break into mid-tier consulting (large firm, brand recognition) from another industry?

It's a good question, and a common question.

One word answer: network

Details: You're not in school anymore so on-campus recruiting is out. The main ways in now are either (i) grad school or (ii) networking.

How you network is up to you. Here's one method: Look people up on linkedin. Send the a message saying you interested in consulting and you'd love to talk. Alumni of your school are a good place to start. Setup time for a phone call, and start talking to them. Have questions brainstormed ahead of time. If/when appropriate, ask them their advice on how to enter their firm. Eventually someone will offer to submit your resume.

Send them your resume.

Hopefully get an interview.

Prepare for the interview. What does this mean? (1) You need a "about yourself" answer that is well rehearsed. The way they ask this is "tell me about yourself" or "walk me through your resume" or whatever. (2) They also will ask a variety of "overcoming a challenge" or "greatest success" or "a time you led something" or whatever questions. For these, you just need 2-3 canned stories that you can spin to answer whatever question they ask. All of these are C.A.R. (Challenge -- what was problem, Action -- what you did (this is majority of response, Result -- what happened as a result of actions / how you won the day...quantitative results are better). (3) Prepare for case interviews. This will probably be 60-70% of the interview.

Hopefully get an offer. The end.

 

[Vicious]

Best way to break into the mug tier I brought up as something that happened me - get headhunted.

That requires pretty much the same of what goodtimez above is describing though you have to have that network where you can make yourself a dot on the radar.

 

[anonymous123]

I was going to bite my tongue, but couldn't help but to throw in my $.02:

1. Anytime you are working a job where you have to turn in billable hours, it makes for a shitty lifestyle. Complete donkey. If young, work at these places to gold plate resume only then get the hell out. Save the "going to make partner in x years" for blue pillers. Total crock (and will for sure set you up for a "just one more year" treadmill mentality)

2. Anytime someone says that they would rather work in consulting or commercial banking over scoring a job as an investment banker at a top wall street firm because "the hours suck", it is always the case that they never truly had the offer anyway. If someone wants to get on here and tell me they told Goldman Sachs to stuff it because the hours sucked then I'm happy to eat crow. Just haven't seen this yet. "No longer interested in investment banking because of the hours" = no true job offer (or rather, there was no bid).

 

[Deluge]

2. Anytime someone says that they would rather work in consulting or commercial banking over scoring a job as an investment banker at a top wall street firm because "the hours suck", it is always the case that they never truly had the offer anyway. If someone wants to get on here and tell me they told Goldman Sachs to stuff it because the hours sucked then I'm happy to eat crow. Just haven't seen this yet. "No longer interested in investment banking because of the hours" = no true job offer (or rather, there was no bid).

That's the kind of thing you'd expect on Wall Street Oasis not RVF. I'm not at the end of my degree yet, but as you know I'm at a target school with good grades, and I have zero interest in IB even though I have a shot at it. Give me an BB IB offer right now and you'd be eating crow. Working 12 hour days is one thing. But 80-100 a week? No way. Being miserable and having no life for a big chunk of my 20's isn't worth the money. What would I even spend it on? I want to work to live, not live to work. 8-10 years in corp banking here and you're on $250k, with a much more relaxed lifestyle than IB. For me that's a no brainer.

 

[GyopoPlayboy]

Im with Anonymous here.

I went to an ivy league target school for wall street and consulting.

"Getting an offer" usually entails working at least 1 summer internship during college, and then, if you didnt completely suck or burn out, they would you call you back between november and march for a FT position that starts in may or june.

An "offer" is an informal but serious sign of intent on the bank's part to invest in and train you to their standards.

I agree with anonymous that its not the same thing as someone who has not done any of this or is doing nothing more than just entertaining the idea of ib. Ive had friends and classmates get anxiety attacks and lose sleep over whether they would be getting an actual offer.

After sacrificing so much of your health, sanity, and happiness working towards ib in college, it is highly unlikely (not impossible...just really unlikely) that you would turn down an actual fulltime offer.

 

[Deluge]

After sacrificing so much of your health, sanity, and happiness working towards ib in college, it is highly unlikely (not impossible...just really unlikely) that you would turn down an actual fulltime offer.

You'd only put all that work in for IB if you wanted to do IB in the first place.

 

[Travesty]

After sacrificing so much of your health, sanity, and happiness working towards ib in college, it is highly unlikely (not impossible...just really unlikely) that you would turn down an actual fulltime offer.

Best youth ever. I get delayed gratification, but until we are physically young forever I am with Deluge throwing away your 20s means you are more in love with money and status than life. (80+ hour weeks)

If you are dedicated to helping others and are in medical school I can see the spiritual payoff.

 

[Deluge]

All the people I know in IB are miserable, including people who've written extensive datasheets on the subject in the "manosphere".

It's all about your individual opportunity costs and the marginal benefit you derive from the money and exit opps. How can I keep improving my game and body and enjoy a great sex and social life when I'm working 80+ hours a week? I'd rather work 60 hours a week in corp/insto with the paycut that entails ($250k/yr all up in your early 30's is nothing to sneeze at though) and actually have a life.

 

[Vicious]

It's funny how I completely agree with anonymous 1st point and then find that he's going against his own advice in point 2. Instead of "just another year" it's instead "just a few more hours". Soul killing stuff both.

 

[ElBorrachoInfamoso]

If you've worked a typical Fortune 500 corporate gig, consulting is doing 3x as much work for 2x the pay.

 

[GyopoPlayboy]

dupe

 

[anonymous123]

Deluge isn't trying to learn anything. Apparently he has it all figured out, and not even out of college yet. Bravo.

 

[Deluge]

Deluge isn't trying to learn anything. Apparently he has it all figured out, and not even out of college yet. Bravo.

Give me one good reason why I should be miserable in my 20's if not longer doing IB over Corp. Why should I give up any chance I have of having a life just to go from making a very high income to an obscenely high income?

 

[anonymous123]

Here are a few things to think about:
- You will only be miserable if you are spending your time doing something mundane or something you don't care about. This is irrespective of whether or not you are spending 30, 40, 60, or 80+ hours a week doing it.
- For some, working on a deal isn't about logging hours, it is really exciting. You can feel like you are on a hunting team, and the spoils can be quite rewarding if your hunt is successful. You starve if you don't spear any meat. You don't get paid for clocking hours, so work as much or as little as you want to put towards that particular hunt.
- If you are on a billable hours model, you will always need to put in a certain number of hours. There are other jobs that require a "surge" of hours, but it isn't constant hours. Kind of like finals week. It is too easy to remember finals week and think you worked like that the whole semester, but in reality you didn't.
- Working hard in your 20s is mission critical to setting up a solid lifestyle. At this age you should have plenty of energy to lay the foundation of a very successful career while pumping iron, banging chicas, and drinking beer.
- If you work hard in 20s, by the time you are 30 you can work the same type of hours as most people but be making multiples. Having more money while working the same hours results in having more overall time and flexibility. If you do this right, by the age of 35 you will have both the option of working less and making more money (or, continue working hard and make even more money yet...but, it is your call).

And finally, you should never make decisions based on "I don't want to work that hard." Find something that is really interesting to you and that you are passionate about. If you are like a fish in water with your career, you won't be counting hours. Those that are still counting hours haven't found their calling.

 

[Deluge]

All the points you made are relevant to both career paths, in fact are couple are more reasons against doing IB... What this debate comes down to is why you'd want to make a lot of money in the first place. If you just want to make as much money as possible or chase status, then things like IB and white shoe law make sense. I have no interest in that, and there are many other ways to start your own business if that's what you want to exit into. To sum it up, I would not be able to live the kind of life I want to live if I was an investment banker. That is why acting like everybody wants to work at a bulge bracket investment bank and anyone who says they don't just wasn't able to get in like you said earlier is complete bs.

 

[anonymous123]

OK, fine. I was going to be a surgeon, but decided I didn't like the sight of blood. Is that better?

Deluge, I simply don't see you trying to learn anything from older posters around here...you simply just want to show you already know everything.

Exiting thread.

 

[Deluge]

OK, fine. I was going to be a surgeon, but decided I didn't like the sight of blood. Is that better?

Deluge, I simply don't see you trying to learn anything from older posters around here...you simply just want to show you already know everything.

Quite the opposite, as I alluded to earlier it's learning from older people I know personally and older RVF members who've done or are currently in investment banking which is one of the biggest reasons why I don't want to do it.

You seem to have a problem admitting that what you said earlier was wrong when deep down you know it was, I know this precisely because you've never properly tried to defend your ludicrous position once I called it out. Don't get me wrong, I respect the success you've had, especially post-IB in your own ventures. I've made the choice that I know is right for me, hopefully you've made the choice that was right for you; just don't act like everybody wants to lead the exact same life that you did.

 

[Chewbacon]

what gets lost in the discussion is IB is not just IBD. You can get recruited out of college into an i-bank for stuff like S&T and Research, too. Fewer hours than straight up IBD and you can get comparable pay (maybe not research). I have buddies in each and they seem to like their lives way more than their IBD counterparts. Conversely, my IBD friend at barclays hated his life. And he said he got laid maybe 6 times a year (he isn't straight red pill and doesn't keep in shape, but he has decent game and is aggressive. He just didn't have the time or energy).

The same goes for something like big law as well. If you do M&A or Cap Markets, expect to live around deals and offerings. Insane hours, and unrepdictable ones. If you do litigation, long hours, but more consistent and manageable. If you do ERISA or something more niche, long-ish hours, but nothing as bad as deal-related shit.

 

[Vicious]

We've seen this before from another somewhat ranty (although generally good) forum poster who is also an IB on WS.

We are demonstrated this unfailing belief that everyone wants to be an IB, and those that don't want to are being rationalized by the people in the industry as people that don't have what it takes.
I'm not sure if this is a monstrous effort of self-delusion or if they genuinely believe this. Whatever the case their tone speaks far louder than their words.