What's the beef with Rollo Tomassi?

[PolymathGuru]

He said that I was a sell out for creating neomasculinity.

Then he partners with Christian McQueen.

His behavior can be seen as a man fighting for relevancy.

Then again we are fighting for relevancy as well. We are a minority among civilization. Although it through classical male identity we try to save ourselves, we are understand our forefather's knowledge is not enough to save us in the modern era. Hence, the need for neomasculinity. An expansion on the classical male identity.

I would gamble the problem with Rollo is he attached to a series of ideas. He refuses to prune the deadwood and branches to reshape one's growth.

 

[Tex]

Then again we are fighting for relevancy as well. We are a minority among civilization. Although it through classical male identity we try to save ourselves, we are understand our forefather's knowledge is not enough to save us in the modern era. Hence, the need for neomasculinity. An expansion on the classical male identity.

If you're a threat to the order of things, you're always relevant. That's why Rollo brings up Roosh, the establishment brings up Roosh, Dr. Oz and miscellaneous fatties bring up Roosh.

Rollo is a forgotten masculinist philosopher caught in an awkward relationship with a playboy charicature in McQueen.

All for what we don't even need. We've got it in excess. We don't need to do anything special. Our existence is threat enough.

 

[Hannibal]

Sounds like he's projecting.

He accuses Roosh of stirring up controversy to make a buck, so he stirs up controversy within the manosphere to make a buck.

:hamster:

 

[Putin Closes]

Its clear some guys want notoriety, sounds like nothing but jelly. Roosh now is by far the indisputable king of Red Pill in terms of "brand recognition".

 

[el mechanico]

Then he partners with Christian McQueen.

[attachment=29788]

 

[Hades]

The root of argument here is the radical vs. the moderate. Rollo is a moderate. Roosh has been painted as a radical. Moderates tend to shit all over radicals, even if they agree with 80+% of their ideas, because they want change to happen very slowly. The narrative itself is like an enormous pendulum that has so much inertia that it's unstoppable in the short term. Look at the liberal media, for instance. That took at least two generations of hippies infiltrating academia and graduating classes of uber-liberal marxist journalists - they were "fighting the establishment" one day and a few decades later were entrenched establishment.

What they don't understand is that the slow and creeping change comes due to the radicals swinging the narrative, with moderates sort of hopping along for the ride. Low risk, low reward. If Rollo were a rational male, he'd see this and could both disagree with the method but recognize that he and his ideas were benefitting from the result.

I also had no idea that Rollo Tomassi paired up with McQueen. That's pretty hilarious.

Some of the posts here also miss the point.
Even if the meetups were a publicity stunt, so what? Best case scenario, we would have all benefitted. That's a pretty serious opportunity to network and be among the like-minded. The risk ended up being too great, as feminists and their minions extricated themselves from Netflix to sit in the cold and protest nightclubs.

"The Independent" and "The Daily Beast" bemoaned how easily manipulated RVFers were. Shitheads, the lot of them. What does "neomasculinity" seriously cost you? 10-50 dollars over a period of years? I pay more than that on a monthly power bill and don't feel particularly oppressed about it.

Granted, in practice it caused a shit storm and blowback. 15 minutes of notoriety isn't going to kill off the message, though, and the ideas generated and supported here are generally far off enough from the mainstream that this is the only way it could generate exposure. The Rational Male isn't going to make Oprah's book club.

Rollo Tomassi's stuff is more suited to a Men's Studies department, where people debate the intersectionality of the male experience and how men are oppressed to the benefit of women. There's a time and a place for that but it's going to be a long while.

 

[Jones]

C'MON GUYS! Does anyone here really think Roosh planned a worldwide meet-up and somehow intentionally planted a seed within the feminist ranks to dig up a year-old article on rape calling everyone rapists now?!? That's VERY VERY far fetched, risky. Plus, as stated, he cancelled the meetings.

Woman or man, watch the actions, not the words... even if "words" is how you make your living. Roosh's actions still tell the truth of what he's about. I'm undeterred by Rollo's indifferences with Roosh. Yet, there is definitely some really good stuff both men supply to the manosphere. That, I don't see changing.

I've said a few times before (recently), the greatest part of what Roosh accomplished in attempts to organize the worldwide meet up (which sounds like a handful were successful anyways), is:
1) It flushed out just how crazy and intertwined the click-bait trigger worded media and masses have become over SJW imperative. So NOW we have an accurate gauge of where things stand in action.
2) It provides a much clearer strategy for men, readers of RVF and ROK, to build upon going forward.
3) It accelerated the idiocy of feminists, SJWs, which IMHO, means were closer to a tipping point in change, which will be increasingly more in favor of men.

The meetings had to be cancelled, yes. The responsibility got enormous for one man to take; however, taking risks is part of succeeding in life and I think Roosh has set a great example on how to build a following as per the forum and with ROK, and picking your spots on when to take those risks. I have all the respect in the world for him in putting himself out there.

Your second point is the most important I think, for everyone else here. Meetups still need to happen, but the planning needs to be better, safer, more secure in it's arrangement, and globally sporadic. We can have meet ups in one city planned for a certain week, then follow up with meet ups in other cities. A "blitz", as this ordeal was to our opponents, works best when the enemy is least suspecting it and is unprepared.

I respect both men's perspectives, Rollo and Roosh. Like you mentioned, both have a lot of value to bring to men in the manosphere.

As per the rape article, they used it against him in Montreal the past summer, so that should not come as part of a surprise that it was wielded by them once again on a larger scale. It was fantastic to follow this saga, and we here have no doubt learned a lot from it.

 

[BortimusPrime]

Eh, it's just internet call out culture. The main attention-generators like Roosh will do something that draws in a wide audience, then you have a wide group of youtubers and bloggers that try to leech off that attention by responding. If they're critical, they themselves generate call outs by yet more youtubers and bloggers, generating a feedback loop of increasingly petty disagreements made for the sole purpose of getting clicks.

 

[doc holliday]

This Rollo dude sounds more like an irrational female than a rational male. It's pure jealousy, plain and simple. His crying over Roosh monetizing his ideas is something some Bernie Sanders loving feminazi would say. Fact is that most guys including manosphere writers like Rollo behave like women, throwing people under the bus that they should be supporting instead, all because they can't control their petty emotions.

As has been said here, Rollo's writing sucks. He takes a subject that is filled with emotion and passion and makes it read like an intro to Organic Chemistry textbook. Notice how the guys who aren't anonymous like Roosh, Vox and Mike along with all of us here who still met up inspite of being under tremendous pressure are courageously leading this fight but the anonymous cowards like Rollo, Heartiste etc want to undermine us for the sake their own fragile egos.

To Rollo, the AVFM people and the rest of these cowards I have this to say- help out or shut up and get the fuck out of the way.

 

[Benoit]

Very disappointing post by RT. It's just so uncharitable.

Rollo could have tried to see things from Roosh's point of view, but instead he twists and distorts everything. Only his analytical mind can save lost men from being lead astray by the cartoon villain Roosh he's created.

And he has the nerve to criticise self-promotion, while building up his following of enlightened men who will tell him how great he is.

 

[Germanicus]

Man, I really try to read Rollo's articles in full but my eyes go square with the all the text. It's never-ending. How does it take so many words to say one thing?

I never liked Rollo's writing. It always struck me that his writing was a direct copy of Heartiste. Except Heartiste wrote with some style and Rollo's rip-offs were verbose and pretentious.

Plus when he got butthurt about neo-masculinity. That right there is a tell of just how much of a small-time, small thinking loser Rollo is.

To rip off and modify one of the few smart things Karl Marx ever said: Internet bloggers have always bitched and moaned about the world, but the point is to change it.

We're changing it, and he's making chump change cowering on his internet site, forever whining that women are up to no good but doing nothing about it.

 

[Blaster]

My concern isn’t how he handled this, it’s why he put himself (and other men who admire him) into this. My concern is that any genuineness he might’ve had about Neomasculinity is suspect of being just a vehicle for his own notoriety. If that’s the direction he’s chosen to go, if that’s how he’s decided to turn a dollar, I wish him good luck, but he’s become a dishonest broker of outrage at the expense (in some cases physically and financially) of the men who believed he was sincere.

False dichotomy. Personal, ideological, and stated goals not being perfectly aligned doesn't mean they're in serious conflict with each other.

Seriously, did he even think this through? Even supposing the whole thing was a gambit to gain notoriety (which I don't buy, for the record), what would have happened if that scheme fell through? The successful coordination of a worldwide meetup event for hundreds of RoK readers? That sounds like a pretty fucking win-win situation to me. Rollo can only dream of the ego gratification that would come from pulling off an event like that.

Personally, my take is that the primary objective was a successful event, gaining notoriety from the lying dishonest press and showing them up at the press conference was the contingency plan. A perfect example of an antifragile move.

 

[Blaster]

If you read through the Deadbedrooms or Divorce subredds, there are countless men there who would save or change their lives if they embraced Red Pill awareness, but for whatever reason they get violently hostile at any mention of a TRP solution to their circumstances. How many of these fence-riders will look at Roosh and just have all those biases confirmed about TRP now?

I guess that depends on how many men take sensational articles in The Daily Mail, etc. at face value, and whether anyone not willing to look beneath the surface is ready for "The Red Pill" anyway.

 

[Blueberry]

His article must makes us all wonder why did Roosh create a meetup and leave it known to everyone?

Roosh is not stupid.

With the experience of what happened the previous summer with SJW during his speeches in Canada, he knew full well that SJW will invade the meetups and that it will be all over the medias.

So Rollo's article actually makes sense and might give us the reason why he did it anyway.

Kind of disappointing if this is actually the truth.

Let's see if i'm banned for saying that.

 

[Thoroughbred]

Roosh stepped to the podium and called for a world wide meetup of his and associated authors readership. That is actually making progress in this thing.

What is everyone else waiting for, are we going to change the situation for men from behind our key boards?

You get massive props from me for taking the hit to your character and personal situation that being the figurehead of this movement entails.

I mean we all saw it, ugly, ugly, shit.

That kind of move comes with a bit of notoriety, when the personal cost is so high, who is anyone to criticise a man wanting to play what he could of that to his own gain in the process, and still keep the message pure?

Having said that, there are elements of what Rollo is saying that do have validity. I mentioned elsewhere I did see opportunities in the Australia media at least where Roosh could have taken the mouth piece role over paying up the big bad wolf character the media was hanging on him.

It's already pretty impressive as we saw in the press conference, but I'm sure this has been a crash course for Roosh in PR and being a public figure and his game in this sense will only be on the up from here.

This is a small movement though, and an embattled one. Enemies on all sides. How many people here are there who if their account on this forum was publicly linked to them and made known at their place of work would be in danger of losing their jobs?

Roosh and Rollo hit different segments of this community that are on the same page. It's too small for rivalries and inflaming one gets us no where. While not naive enough to think anyone is going to kiss and make up, I think something along the lines of a podcast where Roosh and Rollo could respectfully spar on their differing points, and highlight their areas of mutuality, would be a great thing to see.

 

[Ghost Tiger]

With the experience of what happened the previous summer with SJW during his speeches in Canada, he knew full well that SJW will invade the meetups and that it will be all over the medias.

Roosh knew there would be some resistance but no one envisioned this order of magnitude. Size matters buds.

 

[Blaster]

His article must makes us all wonder why did Roosh create a meetup and leave it known to everyone?

Roosh is not stupid.

With the experience of what happened the previous summer with SJW during his speeches in Canada, he knew full well that SJW will invade the meetups and that it will be all over the medias.

He also posted guidelines for what to do if SJWs showed up, which was probably considered to be a low to minimal risk at all but a few locations (eg Montreal).

I suspect that some amount of controversial coverage was anticipated, but did not expect The Daily Mail, NY Post, Anonymous, and Australia and UK Governments to also get involved and blow the thing sky high.

 

[SamuelBRoberts]

His article must makes us all wonder why did Roosh create a meetup and leave it known to everyone?

Roosh is not stupid.

With the experience of what happened the previous summer with SJW during his speeches in Canada, he knew full well that SJW will invade the meetups and that it will be all over the medias.

So Rollo's article actually makes sense and might give us the reason why he did it anyway.

Kind of disappointing if this is actually the truth.

Let's see if i'm banned for saying that.

I called Rollo out for this same stupid lie on twitter. Let's see if I hear back.

I was one of the meetup organizers, and so I had a chance to get a bit of a behind the scenes look at what was going on. Roosh always, always made the safety of the meetup attendees his first priority.

It was Roosh who called off the meetups. All the organizers were ready to go ahead with them regardless of the danger. Rollo has this image in his mind of master manipulator Roosh using subtle Jedi mind tricks to make us put ourselves at risk so he could be famous. This couldn't be further from the truth. We organizers weren't the ones who had to persuade Roosh to stop. It was Roosh who had to persuade us to stop.

I remember the exact words he used when we asked him why he'd canceled. He told the group, "I know you're all disappointed, but I don't want someone coming to me on Monday and saying, 'Roosh, I lost my job over this.'"

There were a few people who dropped out before the big cancellation, mostly in particularly dangerous places like Melbourne and Germany. Roosh didn't give them a hard time over it at all. No one did.

And the idea that Roosh was doing this to deliberately provoke controversy is absurd. No one had any idea things would get this big. The meetup post was up for almost a month without generating any news at all. There was less than a week to go before it hit Reddit, then Australia, then Europe, and then the US national papers. None of us, including Roosh, saw this coming. Did you notice how his twitter went from joking posts asking reporters for blowjobs to deadly serious in the span of about 48 hours? That was the time period when it really started to sink in that this had gotten out of control.

The cancellation, by the way, was real. Anyone who met last week organized it on their own, with no help whatsoever from Roosh or anyone at Return of Kings. Roosh deleted the private chatroom for organizers once we learned that it was compromised, so he couldn't even talk to most of us. Anyone who met up anyway did so without a word of help or encouragment from him.

I still don't entirely understand what happened last week. I don't know if anyone does. It felt like something out of a spy movie, or an old Chesterton novel.
I saw real threats that groups were going to disrupt my meetup with bats. I asked a buddy who's a cop if I should laugh them off, and he said, "No, you need to treat threats from (the people with the bats) as being very credible."
I was using burner emails to contact burner phones, and taking all communications off the forum because I thought it might have been compromised. I had to change the time and location, and even then I had to share secret code phrases.
Later in the evening, I went by the location of the original meetup. There were 4 cops there, two in plainclothes and two in uniform, hands on their guns and glaring at me.

The idea that this whole thing was a TROLOLOL publicity stunt, with Roosh gleefully mocking the media and cashing in at their expense, is dumb. Rollo should be embarrassed for advancing it at all. Rollo should be embarrassed about a lot of things, actually.

 

[Rhyme or Reason]

Let's see if i'm banned for saying that.

 

[Ghost Tiger]

I was one of the meetup organizers, and so I had a chance to get a bit of a behind the scenes look at what was going on. Roosh always, always made the safety of the meetup attendees his first priority.

It was Roosh who called off the meetups. All the organizers were ready to go ahead with them regardless of the danger. Rollo has this image in his mind of master manipulator Roosh using subtle Jedi mind tricks to make us put ourselves at risk so he could be famous. This couldn't be further from the truth. We organizers weren't the ones who had to persuade Roosh to stop. It was Roosh who had to persuade us to stop.

I remember the exact words he used when we asked him why he'd canceled. He told the group, "I know you're all disappointed, but I don't want someone coming to me on Monday and saying, 'Roosh, I lost my job over this.'"

Can confirm 100% of that post as a fellow organizer. Bang on.