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What's wrong with labor unions?
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<blockquote data-quote="Simeon_Strangelight" data-source="post: 1200323" data-attributes="member: 6783"><p>Unions are an absolute necessity in a free market economic model. You have to have worker's rights represented, but best not on state level, but on national level. </p><p></p><p>One of the reason why in the robber baron times some industrialists or mine owners paid shit was because all the others paid shit too - 80 hour weeks and barely subsistence wages, shoe-less workers in shoe factories etc. </p><p></p><p>It turned out later, that when good wages are paid, then even more industries and greater wealth can be created for everyone. But of course strong unions, high living wages have to coincide with strong borders, common sense tariffs and you have to explain to unions why a certain company simply cannot afford this or that perk or wage. In Germany unions used to have a seat at the board working together with the employer. </p><p></p><p>Unions however can be inflitrated - in the US this was specifically the case with pure communists or sometimes the mob taking control of things. There are books written on the subject. The negatives however especially in the US are overblown. Government unions are a special thing and while necessary, you have to have massive checks and balances due to the nature of government jobs. Even companies like GM or Chrysler - those big ones were not ruined by high wages - German and Japanese manufacturers also pay their workers plenty. The reason for the failures was simple crappy management decisions - planned obsolescence gone too far, probably even planned de-industrialization of the US. </p><p></p><p>Every force in nature needs a counter-force to stay in balance. You cannot have the power of the corporations be wielded on a mass scale. In some companies lack of control works well, but in many industries the workers need to be represented or the companies do what they did now - fire locals, hire illegals or some cheaper VISA foreigners or they move the factory offshore and produce at 10% wage cost while telling you to "compete". </p><p></p><p>So to recap - unions yes, need control, but also need common sense labor regulations (for example giving massive fines for hiring illegals etc), has to come with sound borders and common sense tariffs - and if someone is found to be a commie, then he needs to be fired instantly, should be a ban against communists on union boards. </p><p></p><p>I don't think that it can work without unions in our system - a company would want to increase profits no matter what - if they can get away with it, then they don't give a shit if they hire shoe-less factory workers or cleaning crew again.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Simeon_Strangelight, post: 1200323, member: 6783"] Unions are an absolute necessity in a free market economic model. You have to have worker's rights represented, but best not on state level, but on national level. One of the reason why in the robber baron times some industrialists or mine owners paid shit was because all the others paid shit too - 80 hour weeks and barely subsistence wages, shoe-less workers in shoe factories etc. It turned out later, that when good wages are paid, then even more industries and greater wealth can be created for everyone. But of course strong unions, high living wages have to coincide with strong borders, common sense tariffs and you have to explain to unions why a certain company simply cannot afford this or that perk or wage. In Germany unions used to have a seat at the board working together with the employer. Unions however can be inflitrated - in the US this was specifically the case with pure communists or sometimes the mob taking control of things. There are books written on the subject. The negatives however especially in the US are overblown. Government unions are a special thing and while necessary, you have to have massive checks and balances due to the nature of government jobs. Even companies like GM or Chrysler - those big ones were not ruined by high wages - German and Japanese manufacturers also pay their workers plenty. The reason for the failures was simple crappy management decisions - planned obsolescence gone too far, probably even planned de-industrialization of the US. Every force in nature needs a counter-force to stay in balance. You cannot have the power of the corporations be wielded on a mass scale. In some companies lack of control works well, but in many industries the workers need to be represented or the companies do what they did now - fire locals, hire illegals or some cheaper VISA foreigners or they move the factory offshore and produce at 10% wage cost while telling you to "compete". So to recap - unions yes, need control, but also need common sense labor regulations (for example giving massive fines for hiring illegals etc), has to come with sound borders and common sense tariffs - and if someone is found to be a commie, then he needs to be fired instantly, should be a ban against communists on union boards. I don't think that it can work without unions in our system - a company would want to increase profits no matter what - if they can get away with it, then they don't give a shit if they hire shoe-less factory workers or cleaning crew again. [/QUOTE]
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