When did you get redpilled on WW2?

Virgil

 
Banned
Protestant
I've heard all the arguments before. "They were occultists. They were ariosophists. They were fake Christians." All of it reeks from a real lack of research done by those who want to get at the core truth. Occultism, along with any form of secret society was a direct ideological opposition to National Socialism. The idea that you should have to hide something from your neighbor, your countrymen, was as alien to German people as the alien race that pilfered it for centuries. Ariosophy, or "occult wisdom concerning the Aryans" was discovered by Lanz von Liebenfels in 1915. After 1920 he used that label for his doctrine. Following the Anschluss in 1938, his writings were banned. So clearly National Socialisms religion was not Ariosophy. Germany was Christianity in the first Reich, it was Christianity in the second Reich, and it was Christianity in the third Reich. In 1927 Hitler removed Artur Dintur from his administrative post due to his increased agitation for a religion based on Aryan racial purity, and a year later kicked him out of the National Socialist party altogether after he challenged him. The German Faith Movement (Deutsche Glaubensbewegung) which was anti-Christian, was created in 1934 in a response to the intention of the NSDAP government to "indoctrinate the children with Christianity and attempting to outlaw all critiques of the faith", and one year later it already ran afoul of the government. The SS and Hitlerjungen were banned from joining, and in 1937 all members of the NSDAP were banned from joining this group. The fact that these faith movements were saying they were the religious expression of "Nazism" despite being vehemently denounced by the government itself numerous times is very telling. Every one of these heathen upstarts was cancelled by the NSDAP.
I respect the opinions of those here who wouldn't fully commit to siding with the Third Reich. For me, the Austrian Painter doesn't have to be morally perfect or even an active Christian for that matter, but he saw the greatest evil in the world in his time and tried his best to fight it.

It's ironic that we see the same infighting between Christians, (neo) pagans and occultists among the Right in his time as it is today. It really did sound like Hitler was barely able to hold Germany back together as he tried to rally Catholics, Lutherans, pagans, left-leaning Strasserists, etc. And some of these people were most likely only focused on the possibility of attaining glory with a German triumph rather than addressing the threat of Bolshevism.

Der Führer could be a closeted pagan or a syncretist for all I care, but what was important was that he fought for Christendom. He reminds me in this regard of Bashar al Assad, whom some say belongs to the esoteric Alawite sect, but protects the Christians in Syria against jihadists and Western-propped "moderate rebels."
 

Bird

Ostrich
Catholic
Here he is dissing the trash and often pornographic art being produced and pushed on the people by the degenerates:
View attachment 54062

Here he is clearly not being against other races and other cultures:
View attachment 54063

Here he is tying the notion of the German people and their requirements for God:
View attachment 54064

Here is something that any European statesman could have said post-2008 or any westerner in the current Weimar 2.0 conditions:
View attachment 54066

Here he is emphasizing the clean and proper education of the youth. Nowhere in the party did it seek to interrupt the German faith in God:
View attachment 54067

Where did you get these pictures?
 
Where did you get these pictures?
They are screenshots from a translated version of his first official speech as Chancellor from February 10th 1933 called "Proclamation to the German Nation". It is banned in English subtitles on youtube, but bitchute has most of his important speeches. All of these should be publicly viewable for proper discourse and education, and one realizes when listening why they are not allowed by those in control. Here is the speech with full English subtitles in the most authentic translation:

"Adolf Hitler's 1st Speech as Realm Chancellor of Germany (Fully Subtitled by The Fascifist)"
 

darknavigator

Woodpecker
Catholic
@ MusicForThePiano

"I've heard all the arguments before. "They were occultists."

In Europe in the early twentieth century lots of people were involved with the occult (especially among the upper classes). One example is William Butler Yeats (a future Nobel Prize winner for Literature) who was heavily involved with the occult (seances, cabbala etc.) Another example is Aleister Crowley who was the maniac that founded the Order of the Golden Dawn. This is the guy all of the modern day celebrities adore and who declared "do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law". This kook was actually taken seriously by the elite in Great Britain. In fact, Yeats (the future Nobel Prize winner) was even a member of his Order for awhile. The Nazi involvement with the occult has been taken completely out of context - lots of people were involved with the occult!
 
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@ MusicForThePiano

"I've heard all the arguments before. "They were occultists."

In Europe in the early twentieth century lots of people were involved with the occult (especially among the upper classes). One example is William Butler Yeats (a future Nobel Prize winner for Literature) who was heavily involved with the occult (seances, cabbala etc.) Another example is Aleister Crowley who was the maniac that founded the Order of the Golden Dawn. This is the guy all of the modern day celebrities adore and who declared "do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law". This kook was actually taken seriously by the elite in Great Britain. In fact, Yeats (the future Nobel Prize winner) was even a member of his Order for awhile. The Nazi involvement with the occult has been taken completely out of context - lots of people were involved with the occult!
Oh yes they were everywhere, but lets rephrase that last part. The occultic movements attempted involvement with National Socialism was not successful. I'm sure you've seen what I posted above about how every one of these bothersome esoteric radicals were removed from positions of influence and banned from joining the NSDAP. These occultists were not exactly the same type as Yeats or Crowley, but those who would seek to use the power that Hitler had achieved to further their own ends or turn back the strength of Christian belief in the Germans (>80 million at the time), but the formation of the NSDAP was based on Germany's history, and their history is a Christian one. The reason why Hitler was so reviled by the same enemies we're facing today was because he did not give a voice to any entity except the state and the church (Protestant and Catholic, and to a lesser extent Orthodox).

Here is an interesting quote from Himmler, the number one man people often point the finger of occultism with, none have any proof they usually just do so because he was the head of the SS. Its remarkable how much of the victors slander is simply parroted without research or evidence. While most of these quotes are not word for word scripture, they are clearly taken from them and definitely inspired by studying them. Some of the vocabulary when translated to English sounds a bit unusual, but you have to consider that Germans do not speak the exact same as English and Americans did, even 100 years ago, there are vast differences in the tongue in terms of emphasis, adjective use, and descriptions of things.
hh-himmlerquote.jpg

This article here is also a good source that tells which speeches he spoke these words at and where in Mein Kampf he wrote certain passages:

https://www.learnreligions.com/adolf-hitler-on-christianity-quotes-248190
This one here will hit some people as shocking, a more direct referral to Christ with His proper titles:

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. ...Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. ...
- Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922"
 
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Bird

Ostrich
Catholic
I had a hard time finding the German audiobook Mein Kampf yesterday, but with the help of qwant.com I finally found a copy on archive.org.

The censorship does not only apply to Bitchute, Odysee has also started to geoblock certain content.

Say what you want about the USA, but at least freedom of speech works there better than anywhere else. It's not only German IPs that are blocked, but also IPs from other European countries.

If you guys have any trustworthy German language sources, please feel free to PM them to me at any time.
It's time to drop some truth bombs on my people that will help them understand what's really going on.
 

Pete345

Kingfisher
Orthodox
78a676264623ce09.jpeg
 
That is a Wehrmacht soldier. Just as the links you posted in the other thread, they are full of inaccuracies. You see what you want to see.
Please explain why Hitler didn't want a priest for his wedding with Eva Braun, moments before his suicide, and asked specifically for a civil servant And why did he refuse to be buried like a Christian? The obvious answer is: he wasn't a Christian.
Yes I know it is a Wehrmacht soldier. What inaccuracies do you talk of? The NSDAP-run government was a political state. It was not a theocracy, a monarchy, or a democracy. It's strongest rallying point for the Germans was their history as Christians, to bring them together for the same purpose, therefore it was not overtly Catholic nor overtly Protestant, but a legal entity which allowed both to flourish and bring strength back to the people through unity. The doctrine of the party was specifically drafted for this history, and to bring the nationalists and the socialists together as one, away from the extremes of capitalism and communism. If Hitler wasn't a Christian to you, then please explain what he was, in terms of faith. If you think he is an atheist or a pagan, you aren't reading enough.

The Soviets surrounded the city on the 16th of April from the east and south, and there was so much that happened in that fortnight that I'm sure his proper wedding was the last thing on his mind. When Goering got married years earlier he had a full on wedding in a church in Berlin which Hitler attended, but there was no imminent invasion by multiple superpowers encroaching on the last command of Germany at the time. Berlin was being evacuated in the days leading up to the losing defense which lead to the surrender on May 2nd after the deaths of Hitler and Goebbels. I have not seen any sources that confirm he specifically asked for a civil servant. He left the decision up to Goebbels to find someone with the qualifications to perform a ceremony, and Goebbels picked Walter Wagner, a lawyer, who was serving in the Wehrmacht in Pankow in late April. If Hitler attempted to have a full-on wedding in the middle of his bunker beneath the apocalyptic streets of Berlin in 1945 as you suggest he should have. it would not be in his character. I can only imagine Catholic priests were in short supply, and that of the two entities with power in Germany, the state and the church, having one of them recognize his union before his death was enough for history. Just like how he did not like to bring his faith into politics but keep them mainly separated, I'm sure he didn't want to dirty the sacred act of church marriage in a place not of holy ground. He did not want to tarnish something as pure as the Church with his own desire to get married if it couldn't be done in the right capacity.

With only pauses in artillery strikes on and around the bunker, there was not much time left. He chose to stay and die with his people, knowing full well the enemy would give him no mercy or quarter if captured. He received the report of how the communists brutally murdered and bestialized the body of Mussolini and his lover a day earlier. He knew what terrors awaited at the hands of the Bolsheviks. He would not allow them to do this to him or Eva, and deprived the enemy of the satisfaction. Does suicide go against the faith? Yes I believe it does, but the fate that awaited him if captured would have been worse than 1000 deaths. I never condone suicide, but none of us were there in those times to understand the decisions that men who had the weight of the world on their shoulders had to make. If he allowed himself to be buried, he would have been exhumed and his dead body desecrated with like what the Allies did with many of their dead enemies. The soviets already allegedly took his burnt remains and did a bunch of tests on them, can you imagine what they would have done if they had an entire body? He didn't die until a whole day after his legal marriage, which gave him at least a little time to live out the remainder of his life as a married man. I pray for the souls of everyone who has committed suicide, but its not our place to give final judgment on them. How many untold number of Christians have had even less dignifying ends in the previous centuries? Ends we will never read or learn about. How many Christians in Bolshevik captivity had committed suicide? We will never know.

So the answer isn't "obvious," if you look deeper into it. These complexities of faith are not so easily proven or disproven. So about my inaccuracies, how about the inaccuracies of the western victor propaganda? How about the psychological torture of the "de-nazification" implementation, cooked up by Morgenthau, that lasted for generations? How about the lies of the President to the American people, who did not want war, but were dragged into two theaters, literally. America had 13 million unemployed people and instead of fixing their economy, FDR instituted another draft to send these hapless souls off to die in Europe and east Asia. Hitler may not have been as overt a Christian as you are, but the man's actions saved more Christian lives since the great defenders of Europe from the Huns, the Mongols, and the Ottomans. If he had not been leading Germany at that time and a weaker man had been in charge, then the USSR would have stomped all over Romania, Hungary, Greece, Serbia, Finland, and gone all the way to the Atlantic with the same red terror they imposed on the Russians, killing more Europeans than the war itself did.

I suggest you read this.
"National Socialism in Context: Russia and Christian Germany under Hitler"
https://www.rusjournal.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/AH-Ideology.pdf

Some excerpts which show exactly what I'm talking about:

"The National Government [of Germany] will regard it as their first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and cooperation. They will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built up. They regard Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life. They are determined, without regard for class and social status, to restore the nation to a consciousness of its political and national unity and of the duties consequent upon this realization. They intend to make respect for our glorious past and pride in our ancient traditions the ground principles for the education of German youth. In this way they will wage a pitiless warfare upon spiritual, political and cultural Nihilism. Germany must not, Germany shall not go under in the chaos of Communism (Proclamation by the Government to the German Nation, Berlin, February 1933). "

"The advantages of a personal and political nature that might arise from compromising with atheistic organizations would not outweigh the consequences which would become apparent in the destruction of general moral basic values. The National Government regard the two Christian confessions as the weightiest factors for the maintenance of our nationality. They will respect the agreements concluded between them and the federal States. Their rights are not to be infringed. But the Government hope and expect that the work on the national and moral regeneration of our nation which they have made their task will, on the other hand, be treated with the same respect. They will adopt an attitude of objective justice towards all other confessions. But they cannot permit that the fact of belonging to a certain confession or a certain race should constitute a release from general legal obligations or even a license for the commission with impunity or the toleration of crimes. It will be the Government’s care to maintain honest cooperation between Church and State; the struggle against materialistic views and for a real national community is just as much in the interest of the German nation as in that of the welfare of our Christian faith (Speech to the Reichstag on 23 March 1933). "

"As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. And as a man I have the duty to see to it that human society does not suffer the same catastrophic collapse as did the civilization of the ancient world some two thousand years ago – a civilization which was driven to its ruin through this same Jewish people (Munich, April 1922). "

"And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress which daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see it work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week it has only for its wage wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people is plundered and exploited."

"The place in which we are assembled today summons up memories of the Prussia of former days which became great in the fear of God by devotion to duty, unfailing courage and selfless patriotism, which principles have welded the German peoples into one nation. May the spirit of this hallowed spot inspire the men of today, may it free us from selfish concerns and party strife and join us together in a feeling of devotion to the best of our national traditions and spiritual renewal for the service of a proud, free and united Germany."

"And now Staatsprasident Bolz says that Christianity and the Catholic faith are threatened by us. And to that charge I can answer: In the first place it is Christians and not international atheists who now stand at the head of Germany. I do not merely talk of Christianity, no, I also profess that I will never ally myself with the parties which destroy Christianity. If many wish today to take threatened Christianity under their protection, where, I would ask, was Christianity for them in these fourteen years when they went arm in arm with atheism? No, never and at no time was greater internal damage done to Christianity than in these fourteen years when a party, theoretically Christian, sat with those who denied God in one and the same Government."

Please post some evidence to the contrary instead of simply saying what I'm posting is (((inaccurate))).
 
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Pete345

Kingfisher
Orthodox
I find it shameless historical revisionism to claim that Hitler was a Christian, when he clearly was not. Individual Nazi Party member were certainly Christian and were tolerated as such, so long as it did not interfere with their allegiance first and foremost to the Nazi Party. While we know the Jews lie incessantly about the horrors of the concentration camps and the whole "Holocaust" narrative, we must not throw the baby out with the bathwater. The Nazis put many thousands of pastors, nuns, and priests in concentration camps, most of whom did not survive. Edith Stein for example is now a Catholic saint, who died in a camp, as well as the famous Lutheran pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Then there is Alexander Schmorell from the famous White Rose group, who was guillotined for spreading anti-Nazi flyers. He is now a Saint in the Orthodox Church. There is a disturbing trend on the Internet where the evil of the Nazi Party is whitewashed, especially by Christians. Calling out the Jews for their lies is one thing, but it is a false corollary that if the Jews are liars, then the Nazis must have been wonderful.




 

Virgil

 
Banned
Protestant
Wikipedia entry on the White Rose group:

Hans and Sophie Scholl, as well as Christoph Probst were executed by guillotine four days after their arrest, on 22 February 1943. During the trial, Sophie interrupted the judge multiple times. No defendants were given any opportunity to speak.

The group wrote, printed and initially distributed their pamphlets in the greater Munich region. Later on, secret carriers brought copies to other cities, mostly in the southern parts of Germany. In July 1943, Allied planes dropped their sixth and final leaflet over Germany with the headline The Manifesto of the Students of Munich. In total, the White Rose authored six leaflets, which were multiplied and spread, in a total of about 15,000 copies. They denounced the Nazi regime's crimes and oppression, and called for resistance. In their second leaflet, they openly denounced the persecution and mass murder of the Jews.[2] By the time of their arrest, the members of the White Rose were just about to establish contacts with other German resistance groups like the Kreisau Circle or the Schulze-Boysen/Harnack group of the Red Orchestra. Today, the White Rose is well known both within Germany and worldwide.
How convenient that these clerical partisans executed by the German regime just happened to be pushing the Holocaust narrative even before the war was over, and were willingly co-opted by the Soviets.

Meanwhile the Jews lobbied for the Catholic Church to de-canonize Simon of Trent, and continue to deny Holodomor to the present.

Do we really expect the Third Reich to be 100% righteous in order to acknowledge that they fought the just cause all along against the greater evil of Judeo-Bolshevism? Are we to discount the Austrian Painter's defense of Christendom on the grounds that he didn't personally believe in the faith of the people he defended?
 
I find it shameless historical revisionism to claim that Hitler was a Christian, when he clearly was not. Individual Nazi Party member were certainly Christian and were tolerated as such, so long as it did not interfere with their allegiance first and foremost to the Nazi Party. While we know the Jews lie incessantly about the horrors of the concentration camps and the whole "Holocaust" narrative, we must not throw the baby out with the bathwater. The Nazis put many thousands of pastors, nuns, and priests in concentration camps, most of whom did not survive. Edith Stein for example is now a Catholic saint, who died in a camp, as well as the famous Lutheran pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Then there is Alexander Schmorell from the famous White Rose group, who was guillotined for spreading anti-Nazi flyers. He is now a Saint in the Orthodox Church. There is a disturbing trend on the Internet where the evil of the Nazi Party is whitewashed, especially by Christians. Calling out the Jews for their lies is one thing, but it is a false corollary that if the Jews are liars, then the Nazis must have been wonderful.




Wikipedia is hardly a trustworthy source for historical truths, especially in regards to WW2 material. Also, what were these peoples crimes? Everyone was held responsible for their actions. Looking into this makes it not as black and white as you make it out to be. If someone was working against the nation, they were considered an enemy, regardless of what their occupation was. "Thousands of pastors, nuns, and priests" doesn't have a verifiable source. Out of 50 main camps, and over 900 sub-camps, I find it believable that many people on labor sentences there at the camps which were captured by The Red Army in the east, or bombed to oblivion by the Allies in the west, did not "survive". This (((White Rose))) group was clearly partisans, and if not working for agents in the west, spreading lies about the camps and sowing dissent in the people during wartime, then actively sabotaging the morale of the German people in their leadership. Very honorable of Schmorell to desecrate the resting place of the national heroes who were killed during the Munich Putsch in 1923 with Graffiti by the way. These claims are dubious, why would practicing Christians spread lies and slander of their own government which was fighting the mass-Christian-murdering USSR, when what they were protesting was a hoax? They were seriously misled if they thought that the other superpower governments would show them any mercy. The leaflets of the White Rose themselves read like it was written by a couple of lying jews. I'm convinced these were agents of the east. Their incessant calling national socialists "subhumans" and claims of things that did not exist are typical in jewish slander. It is these same lies which led to the massacres of Germans in Bromberg in 1939, and the riling up of the communist mobs in every country against its host government which caused more suffering and deaths at the hands of violent, treacherous partisans.

Read for yourself. If your country was in a deadly war with a violent Bolshevik horde, would you want these loosening the faith in the citizens back home? These papers were attempting to rile people up to commit murder of one group while at the same time denouncing it if its done by another group, a classic tactic of marxist subversives.
https://whiteroseinternational.com/documents/

"if Germans are so devoid of individuality that they have become an unthinking and cowardly mob – then, yes then they deserve their destruction."

"And he must not merely feel pity – no, much more: He must share in the guilt. It is his apathetic conduct that gives these sinister people the possibility to carry out their deeds. He tolerates this “government” that has incurred such infinite guilt. Yes, he is even guilty himself that this government come could into existence!

Each man wishes to be acquitted of his complicity – everyone does so, then lies back down to sleep with a calm, clear conscience. But he may not acquit himself. Everyone is guilty, guilty, guilty!

But it is not too late to rid the world of this most awful of all miscarriages[4] of government, in order to avoid incurring even more guilt. Those of us who have had our eyes completely opened in recent years since we know with whom we are dealing – it is high time for us to exterminate this brown horde." (You hear that you goy slop? You are guilty eternally of things you did that you didn't even know!)

"The first concern of every German should not be a military victory over Bolshevism, but rather the defeat of the National Socialists. "

"There is no punishment on this earth that is adequate for the deeds of Hitler and his followers. Out of love for the generations to come, we must make an example [of them] after the conclusion of the war so that no one will ever have the slightest desire to attempt something similar." (I've heard jews and liberals say this exact same thing)

"Do not forget even the little scoundrels of this regime. Note their names, so that no one escapes! After all these atrocities, they should not be able to change sides at the last minute and thereby pretend as though nothing had happened!" (precursor to the Nuremburg fake tortured confessions and constant hunting down of Germans for the remainder of the century?)

"The imperialistic notions of power must be forever rendered harmless, regardless of which side they come from. A one-sided Prussian militarism shall nevermore come to power. The groundwork for reconstruction can only be created in a liberal cooperative effort of European nations. Every centralized power, such as that which the Prussian state has attempted to exert over Germany and Europe, must be nipped in the bud. The Germany of the future must be a federalist state. Only a healthy federalist form of government will be able to breathe new life into a weakened Europe. The working class must be liberated from their menial slavery through a practical form of socialism. The illusion of a self-sufficient economy must disappear from the face of Europe. Every nation, every individual has a right to the goods of the world!" (back to the Rothschild plantation you go, you silly Europeans! Usury and debt-slaves forevermore!)

"The German name will be forever defamed if German youth does not finally arise, avenge, and atone, if he does not shatter his tormentor and raise up a new intellectual Europe. " (pure psychological gaslighting, chutzpah to the highest degree. How dare you people not turn against your government and patiently wait for the Bolsheviks to come in and bring peace to you, they're not a threat after all)

"Stalingrad! 200,000 German brothers were sacrificed for the prestige of a militaristic imposter. The human conditions of surrender set down by the Russians were hidden from the soldiers who were sacrificed" (You mean the human conditions wherein they were forced to march to Moscow and paraded in front of the Soviet citizens while street cleaners flanked them spraying the ground to wash away their "fascist footsteps" and then sent to the gulags where most never returned home and died under extreme conditions?)

These blanket statements are ridiculously academically and intellectually dishonest. I have no right to say whether or not a church should canonize someone after their death, but this guy was clearly lying if he was part of the White Rose partisan group. The lies and treachery of the partisans brought no end to the suffering of Europe after the war, it only expanded it. And don't act as if Tsarist Russia never put clergy on trial or executed those who work in the church. The horrors of the Red Revolution and the Russian Civil war far outweigh anything the Tsars have done, but throughout the 2000 years of Christian history, there were no shortages of heretics, simonists, corrupted clergy, sowers of discord, and so on. Such is the imperfect condition of man being in a state of sin.

I suggest you watch Hellstorm, to see how justified your opinions are that these terrible (((nazi's))) met their fate, as the German race almost went extinct from the actions of the masonic victors, not the actions of the NSDAP:

"Hellstorm - Biggest Coverup in History"
 

darknavigator

Woodpecker
Catholic
@ MusicForThePiano

I don't know enough about this subject (Nazi involvement with the occult). I have read that some famous Nazis were involved with the occult e.g. Rudolf Hess and Karl Haushofer who were apparently involved with the Thule Society? The point I'm trying to make is that if some of the Nazi leadership were involved with the occult then SO WHAT!!! Lots of people in leadership positions in Europe were involved with the occult e.g. WB Yeats (who won the Nobel Prize). All we see on television is programs such as "Hitler and the Occult" etc. SO WHAT!!

It's like how the British make a big deal out of the "Blitz" were the Germans targeted British cities in bombing raids. I've read that the only reason that the Germans started targeting British cities is because the British Air Force were targeting German cities first? Apparently, Churchill ordered the Royal Air Force (RAF) to bomb German cities in order to bait the Germans into targeting British cities in response (and the Germans fell for the bait). Question - did the British Royal Air Force target German cities first?

The winners always write the history!
 

Virgil

 
Banned
Protestant
Read for yourself. If your country was in a deadly war with a violent Bolshevik horde, would you want these loosening the faith in the citizens back home? These papers were attempting to rile people up to commit murder of one group while at the same time denouncing it if its done by another group, a classic tactic of marxist subversives.
It doesn't add up that the Germans would just let the Jews chill in these internment camps for 4 years, with the eventual plan of deporting them to Madagascar, and then just slaughter priests and nuns in these same places for no reasons.

When you read up on the spread of Communism during the Cold War, countries ranging from Chile to South Korea to Indonesia had to resort to violently suppressing Communist activists and insurgents. Vietnam was torn apart in 20 years of civil war because one half of the country refused to accept Communist rule.

It seems these clerics that have been rounded up by the German government were Marxist agitators through and through. This is the same Bolshevik playbook used in Latin America, Vietnam and the Philippines. I've been exposed to propaganda in university from student front groups that operate for the Communist insurgency in my country (New People's Army) and they're frequently about some innocent student activist or doctor or whatever that is detained and tortured by the military in the remote countryside, when everyone else knows that they're spies and agents working for the commie terrorists.
 

charliec12

 
Banned
Orthodox
Of course Hitler wasn't Christian, he tolerated it as a kind of national weakness that might be harnessed for his goals. In fact he was contemptuous of it referring to the Bible dismissively in a meeting with senior coleagues as 'a Jewish artefact'. Like the pagan larpers of today he saw Christianity as a jewish movement designed to undermine white societies - like a proto-bolshevism.

That's not to denegrate him, he was a truly remarkable man with incredible gifts of oratory and leadership, and with a crystal clear understanding of the Jew as a threat to the world peace.

I suggest anyone looking for an accurate picture of Hitler and his war read the works of the historian David Irving who only worked from contemporaneous sources which hadn't been compromised in the aftermath of the war. The 'artefact' quote above is from his work.
 
Of course Hitler wasn't Christian, he tolerated it as a kind of national weakness that might be harnessed for his goals. In fact he was contemptuous of it referring to the Bible dismissively in a meeting with senior coleagues as 'a Jewish artefact'. Like the pagan larpers of today he saw Christianity as a jewish movement designed to undermine white societies - like a proto-bolshevism.

That's not to denegrate him, he was a truly remarkable man with incredible gifts of oratory and leadership, and with a crystal clear understanding of the Jew as a threat to the world peace.

I suggest anyone looking for an accurate picture of Hitler and his war read the works of the historian David Irving who only worked from contemporaneous sources which hadn't been compromised in the aftermath of the war. The 'artefact' quote above is from his work.
Irving has some work that is correct, but he went back and forth on the (((holocaust))) issue with the authorities for decades. I don't know how he could be so wishy-washy. His best book was Churchill's War. The misquotes from Hitler are often from writers who say "well thats what Hitler would have said," as if they wrote something that his personality would be assumed to say, regardless of whether it was real or not. The 'artefact' quote sounds like it was from "Hitler's Table Talks" which are fake. He did not have anyone around to record his regular talks, there would have been a stenographer present. The only time this happened was when he was visiting Mannheim in Finland and a radio operator was recording the conversation where they talk about the number of tanks in the USSR. His speeches and his writings were the only two official sources of what he directly said to people. Based on everything I've found, if you read the last page or two of this thread, you will see some of his quotes directly contradict the idea that he said the Bible is a "jewish artefact". I've already refuted the "pagan larper" picture of Hitler in this thread, please don't use that intellectual fallacy when describing his views on Christianity, he saw it as the source of the German peoples strength.
 

charliec12

 
Banned
Orthodox
Irving has some work that is correct, but he went back and forth on the (((holocaust))) issue with the authorities for decades. I don't know how he could be so wishy-washy. His best book was Churchill's War. The misquotes from Hitler are often from writers who say "well thats what Hitler would have said," as if they wrote something that his personality would be assumed to say, regardless of whether it was real or not. The 'artefact' quote sounds like it was from "Hitler's Table Talks" which are fake. He did not have anyone around to record his regular talks, there would have been a stenographer present. The only time this happened was when he was visiting Mannheim in Finland and a radio operator was recording the conversation where they talk about the number of tanks in the USSR. His speeches and his writings were the only two official sources of what he directly said to people. Based on everything I've found, if you read the last page or two of this thread, you will see some of his quotes directly contradict the idea that he said the Bible is a "jewish artefact". I've already refuted the "pagan larper" picture of Hitler in this thread, please don't use that intellectual fallacy when describing his views on Christianity, he saw it as the source of the German peoples strength.


Please feel free to give an example of DI going back and forth on the holocaust. He was hounded by the ADL and jewish organisations for standing firm on his assertion that there was no evidence, in fact the contrary, that Hitler had a plan to eradicate the Jews.

You clearly know nothing about DI if you seriously think that he would attribute quotes to his subjects without first verifying them: that was the hallmark of his work, he was one of the most highhly regarded historians along with Steven Runciman of the 20th Century. Hitlers Table talks - whatever that is, is a strawman argument that's completely irrelevant. The 'artefact' quote I gave is from Hitlers War, by David Irving, and it was recorded, contemporaneously, by one of the generals present when he said it.

What do you mean he didn't have anyone around to record his regular talks? I'm talking about Irving's years of meticulous research getting first hand, uadulterated notes taken by those who were present when he said these things in his staff meetings. It's from the personal diaries of his inner circle.

I could believe a guy on the internet who's done some WWII research on Bitchute etc about Hitler, or I could read David Irving's voluminous work covering every angle of the war using hundreds of verified contemporaneous sources, for which he was imprisoned and bankrupted by the ADL and its proxies, and take a view from his writings. It's a hard choice, but I'm gonna stick with the view that Hitler had contempt for Christianity and viewed it as a Jewish construct designed to ensnare the goyim.

I think he was wrong about this.
 

paternos

Kingfisher
Catholic
The power of the church had been in steep decline since the "enlightenment".

Christianity as an institutional power house has not played a significant part in the large global wars.
All wars we have seen in the last 150 years are nationalist wars. Nations fighting nations. With later the move tp internationalism.

Nations fight and suffer for the interests of the elites of the specific nation.

It's the age of the nations, the age where governments can steal 50% of the citizens money with out a problem.

In my opinion it's more or less the same, communism, liberalism, nationalism, it's just words. It's all megastate nationalism.
 

darknavigator

Woodpecker
Catholic
Himmler modelled the Waffen SS on the Society of Jesus (the Jesuits) and Hitler referred to Himmler as "my Ignatius of Loyola". Anti-Catholics LOVE to point out that Hitler was a baptised Catholic even though he disliked the Catholic culture of Austria and southern Germany. He definitely felt more affinity with the northern German (Protestant / Prussian) militaristic culture.
 
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