When do you leave?

[The Beast1]

This forum used to have a travel section with members espousing desires to, "leave the west".
Instead, I'd like to ask another question:

When do you leave your country with your family when things go south (hyperinflation, economic collapse, etc)?

My wife and I have been discussing this. All of us and the kids have passports. Where do we go if America descends into a communist hell hole? When's an appropriate sign to leave? What do I pack?
I'm not wealthy enough to flee to my ranch in New Zealand. I have some friends in South America that I figure we could flee to. We both acknowledged that we'd basically lose everything.

Has anyone else thought of this?

 

[fireshark]

As someone who has lived almost 7 years of my life outside of America in various countries. I will never flee America and will gladly take my chances here, come hell or highwater.

Living in a city is certainly a bad idea, though, and the more like-minded community / neighbors, land and self-sufficiency you can muster, the better.

 

[kel]

Like fireshark, I spent a good portion of my 20s and beyond living and traveling around the world, but now my plan is to stick it out in the US (I am open to other places, but I haven't found anywhere that's just so wonderful by x, y, or z metric to overcome the additional logistical details of moving myself and my loved ones there, dealing with the uncertainty of that, being outsiders, etc.).

My advice - which doesn't exactly answer your question and is something I myself am executing upon more slowly than I ideally should be - is to arrange your life such that you're already in the best place to survive the collapse (which I think has already happened and is happening as we speak just more slowly than that word usually suggests). My personal plan, that I've obliquely mentioned, is getting a little farmstead going with the friends and family I can bring along with me. Community is the ultimate hedge against inflation and collapse. Anyone who isn't prepping a supportive and strong community around them really isn't prepping in my opinion, regardless of how many bullets and water purifiers they've got neatly organized.

I don't know when, if ever, things will really tip. I'm expecting things to get hot by the end of this decade, but the human ability to cope is legendary, it doesn't seem at all impossible to me that the bughives continue to grow, big line continues to go up, and the mass of people just accept living in a rollerball like future because it's what they know and it has distractions and risking something else is intimidating to them. That's possible. But, whether there's a "collapse" or just a continued slide into dehumanized existence, my farmstead is still where I want to be. So, I'm "leaving" in the next year, essentially. Founding this place, getting it productive, and arranging things such that whatever happens my lifestyle is resilient. Trying to time the market is tough, so other than "damn, I really should've already done it" I don't think about "when is right" too much.

 

[Christopher J]

Never run away, only run toward. In other words, if a great opportunity arises elsewhere, go for it, but we shouldn't leave because external things are going south. That's usually when God is telling us to stay where we are, to stand and fight.

 

[SoftFor]

Can't blame you for thinking that way. We can tell you this and that but at the end of the day, it's still your decision. Do whatever your gut tells you.

 

[Pavel]

We'll leave when kids are independent and won't live with us.

 

[Pointy Elbows]

We'll leave when kids are independent and won't live with us.

Been thinking this way for decades.

If you are sure you want to go and can possibly go, then best to do it while you "can." There will be NO "good" time. If it really is better, then why not take your kids with you?

Your obligations will change. My parents are now old and I want to help them (hard obligation). My employees rely on my business for stability and I would feel guilty selling and skipping (medium obligation). My adult kids need some help occasionally . One would go with me in a heartbeat, the other really can't go (tossup payoff - neutral). My little church is important to me (low obligation, there will be good churches where I go). I didn't see these all 15 years ago.

Even with a violent break-up, life goes on, people need to eat. The USSR broke up (people still get on), Mexico is pretty rough (people still get on). Western Europe or Canada have similar problems. I could move to EE, but it could be nasty. No guarantees.

The "Balkanized States of America" sounds bad, but I can see it being "livable" outside of the BLM zones. If there is a dramatic collapse, I think there will be a soft purging of parasites. Some will leave to home countries, the US born slugs that must stay will suffer first. The skilled and strong may do very well.

To me the worst case scenario is what I see playing out now - an incremental advance of socialist programs where everyone stays under the "big tent" of our generous comfort zone. No big event, just ratcheting up of leftie ideas. Boiled frog stuff. It makes the "when" confusing.

There will never be a "good" or "clear" time for such a decision. Mostly, our ancestors made such a call to come here. They got no guarantees. Now many of us are thinking about the return or a similar move. Still, No guarantees.

Ever talked to Europeans about this? I've twice had Europeans (one Irish, one Ukrainian) tell me (paraphrasing here): "It is different. You see, your family left. They made the big move. Ours did not." It was a nod to both of our ancestors. My forefathers took the great leap and came to the New World. Their forefathers stayed and slogged it out for several centuries of turmoil. They were rooted, I am a genetic wanderer.

 

[epps_1920]

My wife is from South America and she still says it's way better here (if you can believe that) in the US than there, too much instability in politics. We're staying put with two small children. If anything rural areas in the US offer more chance if you just get out of the big cities, as stated by posters in this thread.

 

[Cervantes]

I don't underestimate the difficulty of leaving.

I'm in the process of moving to a part of the US that I expect to be more stable in the coming years, and I don't think things will deteriorate enough in the next decade that I'd be forced to leave - but I have passports for everyone and decided on what conditions would trigger leaving.

You have to look at history and make judgments about when it would have been best to leave. It has to be conditions where the possible outcomes are completely unacceptable - not just uncomfortable.

One obvious comparison is when would it have made sense to leave communist Russia - and that would be before people were being sent to the Gulag by the millions. So for me it would be the collapse of the judicial system and people being sent to political prisons indiscriminately. We're on that road now. Those who oppose the system are being sent to prison in unjust processes and there is no protection of law any more. But it isn't indiscriminate yet. You have to get unlucky, or to actively challenge the system.

Another trigger would be a third world war if I had children that might conceivably be drafted. I have no interest in having any child of mine die for the BLM or gay pride flags.

A third trigger is if the government starts to mandate that children go to public school so they can be indoctrinated in sodomitic "pride".

I plan to ride out things like food shortages, hyper inflation and crime waves. You can prepare for, and survive those better here than overseas. For these problems you need to be preparing now to have some kind of independent way of survival, and to be building parallel communities that you can draw on later. That can be done better among people who you already know and share blood, culture and language.

If you do end up having to leave you want to leave as early as possible after you've determined that your red lines are likely to happen. Once it is obvious to everyone then leaving will be much harder: harder to get visas, buy property in safe countries, sell out here etc. Once Stalin was herding people onto train cars the possibility of moving away was unlikely for most people.

 

[fortyfive]

Many people are thinking about leaving, but where to? The world is no more bipolar like decades ago, covidism is now everywhere.
The most valid reason for escape is having a family with kids. Especially small. Parents should protect their children and not expose them to shtf if possible.
It seems, very volatile times are coming and this is probably just beginning. Many similarities with the world before ww2.
The '30s are coming.

 

[Maddox]

Never run away, only run toward. In other words, if a great opportunity arises elsewhere, go for it, but we shouldn't leave because external things are going south. That's usually when God is telling us to stay where we are, to stand and fight.

Where in the Bible does it say to stand and fight? The only verse I remember on the subject tells Christians to run from one town to the next in order to avoid persecution.