Where does the "natural" alpha mindset come from?

tugofpeace

 
Banned
Is it encoded in our DNA? Are some people guaranteed to be leaders, and others followers?

Is it based on our upbringing, at a very young age?

Is it based on our testosterone?

Is it based on our physical stature growing up?

Is it based on how we're treated growing up?
 

B-Minus

 
Banned
I was born an alpha, molded by it. I didn't become a beta male until I was already a man and by then I could already get all the pussy but then after a while, due to being a beta male, I couldn't any more.
 

Savonarola

 
Banned
tugofpeace said:
Is it encoded in our DNA? Are some people guaranteed to be leaders, and others followers?

Is it based on our upbringing, at a very young age?

Is it based on our testosterone?

Is it based on our physical stature growing up?

Is it based on how we're treated growing up?

Alpha is highly contextual. You can be an alpha in some environments and beta or even gamma in others.

Also there are different types of alpha status:
Some alphas are "leaders of men", honorable, strong.
Other alphas are "seducers of women," sneaky, cheaters.
Still other alphas are aloof, talented, intelligent, skeptical types.
And others are just performers in the public eye, so become alpha by default.

So it's hard to answer your question.

If you're referring to "caveman alpha king of the high school football team" type of natural ... those powers are pretty limited and don't often last long in adulthood. Those guys usually can't succeed in a modern, complex society. They literally are simple creatures and they function best in very simple environments. Many of them battle their weight later in life too. Al Bundy is an exaggerated version of this.
 

Heuristics

 
Banned
The usage of the word we're talking about:
"alpha:

informal
denoting a person who has a dominant role or position within a particular sphere.
"take turns cooking for each other if one of you is too much of an alpha chef" "

Simply means being dominant, or not being passive. Masculinity is dominance symbolically speaking.

Alpha is being masculine. Which you can express through a variety of methods: succeeding in whatever you do, which could be in the workplace, with social relationships, in competition etc.

Men are born to compete. That's our biological role, to fight the competition and get our genes passed on.

You are the sum of your parts, that much is true. So you are an amalgamation of all your ancestors who passed DNA onto you. They survived whatever hardships the world has known, beyond that, found a mate, and then reproduced. So sure, you could say some people are born alphas. No doubt about it. Many athletes are born with physical gifts none of us were born with. They were born lucky.

The real beauty of the human condition is that we have intellect and reasoning, and self-awareness. We can use tools, and use medicine to heal us when we are sick. Above all, we can improve if we have the desire to. While we are tremendously social and group-oriented animals, one man can move mountains if he so desires. Frequently I think of Tesla, he did so much to change the world.

Your position on the social hierarchy determines the amount of serotonin your brain releases, in other words the higher you are in status, the better you feel. To illustrate the point, that's why you see chad on the dancefloor not giving a fuck, with his ball-cap backwards calling everyone "bro". You can learn many things from Chad, but part of the way he acts, is well, because he's Chad and he's higher up on the ladder than you. He feels good all the time. Your goal should be to feel like him, but on a deeper level you should have a desire to make yourself better.

The task you have before you is to climb the dominance hierarchy. Better to be good at something in a small domain, than to be average at a few things across different domains. That's what we call a niche. They serve a very clear purpose.

Alphas are not just chad-athletic types. You have alphas in business, politics, the arts, and so on.

As far as getting higher up the ladder: the answer to that should be self-evident. As I said you find a niche, which you may already have. Improve, get mentors, observe others better than you, work longer, harder and smarter. Exercise, because it is key to regulating your emotions more effectively. Have a regular schedule (why do many rich men like Warren Buffet do the same thing every day? Because it regulates your body and makes things simpler, freeing up time and energy for you to focus on the important stuff). Ensure plenty of sleep. Make sure your testosterone is at the proper levels. Get into nature. Socialize.

Remember that you are a male. If your life is in order, you are already more alpha than most. If it's not, get it in order.

One last thing: i think all alphas are very knowledgeable. Either in their domain, or across multiple domains. It doesn't hurt to educate yourself (whether in the classroom, with a book, or by learning from peers). Alphas generally know what the truth is, and don't let themselves get sidetracked by society, political correctness, or group-think.

I think the question that should be asked is not, "what is alpha?", but,
"what makes men attractive to women." And the answer is simple: wealth, status, success, and to a lesser extent athletic ability and looks.

Thus, alpha men are rich always in some way (not necessarily money, but maybe in knowledge, skill or information), have a high group status (whether that be socially, work, community, etc), and have success or mastery of one or multiple domains.

Attraction triggers are fundamentally different for women than men, therefore women are generally looking for dominance--ie masculinity.

As far as people that became alphas, it certainly happens, examples: Steve Jobs (pot smoking hippy who spent time on communes), George Lazenby (leveraged a career in modeling into becoming the next James Bond with no acting career, thereby becoming the most desired Western guy in the world maybe apart from Mick Jagger, and thus one of the most successful modern womanizers), and Roger Federer (who became the best tennis player ever arguably after getting out of his head, mastering his emotions, and working year in and year out to improve against one of the toughest rivals you could have, ever, Rafa Nadal).

To end, I'll quote the inspiring story of how Lazenby became Bond:

"George Lazenby on Bond, sex and the 60s: 'They had the pill … I was a handsome guy' "


Alone on the sand, Bond – played by Australian model-cum-actor George Lazenby – turns to the camera and delivers the now- famous line: “This never happened to the other fella.

Those words are a cheeky, self-conscious reference to a changing of the guard, the New South Wales-born performer landing the role in rather unlikely circumstances (more on that in a moment) following five Sean Connery-led films.

But the line works on another level too. When it comes to Lazenby’s relationship with the James Bond franchise, a lot of things are relevant to him that never happened to the “other fella”, be it Connery specifically or any other actor who has played the martini-sipping, gadget-deploying, double entendre-delivering secret agent.

Lazenby is the only Australian to play 007, for instance, and the only actor to have landed the role with no prior acting experience. And unlike his colleagues Connery, Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton, Pierce Brosnan and Daniel Craig, he played Bond once – and never again.

...

But mid question, Lazenby interjects. “I wrote it! That was my line!” he exclaims. On set, he would issue complaints such as, “I betcha the other fella didn’t have to do this” and “this didn’t happen to the other fella”. The film’s director, Peter Hunt, asked him to say it off the cuff, according to Lazenby, “so I said it, thinking it would never be in the movie. And they used it.”

As he keeps talking, the actor gives me yet another “only George Lazenby” to add to the collection. “I did my own stunts – except the skiing, because the insurance company said no skiing, although I did some anyway, in close-up – and I’m the only Bond who ever did that,” he says. “Sean Connery wouldn’t step down a step without saying ‘stunt man!’”

A new stranger-than-fiction documentary, Becoming Bond, explores Lazenby’s life, unpacking how the former model lied and scammed his way into the audition room by pretending to be a seasoned actor – and then, against all odds, nailed the part. The film, which is screening in Australia as part of the American Essentials film festival, also addresses the question that has plagued Lazenby for decades: why, after achieving the seemingly impossible, he did the seemingly unthinkable by rejecting a million-dollar offer to sign on for six more Bond films.

The documentary considers this mostly in the context of Lazenby rejecting a “slave contract” proposed by the studio. But also, as he explains to me, “I had advice that James Bond was over anyway. It was Sean Connery’s gig and, being in the 60s, it was love, not war. You know, hippy time. And I bought into that. They also said there’s a guy called Clint Eastwood doing movies in Italy, getting 500 grand for a month, for doing a western. They said, you could do that. So I didn’t feel like I was losing the million dollars.”

In his colourful and outspoken subject, Greenhaum found a mother lode of sex, drugs and rock’n’roll – and a person more than happy to talk about his exploits. Lazenby estimates he has slept with “maybe a thousand” women. “In the 60s alone there was sometimes three, four, five a day. For years. They had the pill. It was on script. I was a handsome guy from Australia ...

“It was ridiculous. It really was. If you were handsome, and you had the balls to ask them – I mean, how many times you could get it up was how many times you could do it.”

The actor has previously said that the day-to-day requirements of working on a film reduced his sex life (“It restricts you to the people who are around you”), and he clearly wasn’t fond of the on-set experience. “You’ve got to be there on time. You’ve got to be dressed and made up,” he grumbles. “It’s OK every now and again but to do it seriously, you need to have a different frame of mine than I’ve got.”

One of the anecdotes Lazenby recounts in Becoming Bond, which features re-enactment scenes starring Josh Lawson, is of a day in the 60s when he picked up a woman off the street (“she was engaged, by the way”), and took her to a nearby friend’s house for tea. Some time later, when the woman announced it was time for her to leave, Lazenby’s friend turned to them and said: “You two aren’t going anywhere, I put LSD in your tea.”

Lazenby says he “didn’t even know what acid was, until I saw my breath going across the room, watched the curtains moving and started to taste colours.” The former 007-from-Down-Under was later fed marijuana by that same friend in Germany, he explains; when he noticed this friend reading a menu upside down in a restaurant, he erupted into a laughing fit so hard he had to leave the premises.

According to Lazenby, his consumption of mind-altering substances came after 007. And when it came to alcohol, his beverage of choice was a far cry from the delicate shaken-not-stirred: “I was just drinking beer when I got the Bond movie and drinking beer during it,” he says. “There was never a martini. I had one sip of one once, and I didn’t like it. I wasn’t into hard liquor at the time. I was into beer, which wasn’t very James Bond.” Indeed, there’s not a lot in George Lazenby’s story that was.
 

Donfitz007

Kingfisher
The term Alpha is indeed very contextual. when most people think of alpha they think of the person dominant or near-dominant in every scenario.
The caveman style alpha was the one who was the leader of the group, most likely was the strongest or most dominant, and had an imposing presence.

The alpha many people think of now is kinda like a fall guy for many debates. True Alphas like the ones these gurus or salesmen preach of are VERY VERY RARE. maybe 1 in a million literally. These Bruce Wayne, James Bond types are real but trying to become one is foolish. Since you'll have to be dominant in EVERY category. Rich, Charismatic, Strong, Attractive, etc etc.

Instead, it's best to pursue obtaining Alpha traits. The main traits are dominance and a strong sense of self.

My suggestion is to read more, primarily stories of "alphas" You'll start to see that Alphas are both born and molded by life. Teddy Roosevelt is the perfect example. Some guys step up to the plate naturally whereas others are taught by experience.

Like many others I'm tired of the term alpha. Just strive to be the best man you can be and try to achieve High SMV status. There are few alphas and few betas, there are mainly just men trying to be live.
 

Savonarola

 
Banned
Donfitz007 said:
Like many others I'm tired of the term alpha. Just strive to be the best man you can be and try to achieve High SMV status. There are few alphas and few betas, there are mainly just men trying to be live.

But they're useful signifiers because women use them in their mating strategy.

Females
SCAN for alpha
TOLERATE beta
IGNORE gamma

Percentage-wise, I'd say society is overall

10% alpha
50% beta
40% gamma

Of course, this is fluid, since these things are contextual. But social hierarchy is real and we'd best not ignore it.
 

Donfitz007

Kingfisher
I would say 1% alphas. You don't have to be alpha to be great with women. Even in Hollywood, Dicaprio, in my opinion, is one of a handful of Alphas.
 

Heuristics

 
Banned
Donfitz007 said:
I would say 1% alphas. You don't have to be alpha to be great with women. Even in Hollywood, Dicaprio, in my opinion, is one of a handful of Alphas.

At some point unless the woman is really high status she has to settle for a beta. Dicaprio continues to amaze despite his high age... Unlike many in hollywood he hasn't settled. At this point, he's almost mirroring Clooney's trajectory. I just hope he doesn't settle down with a near-wall, or post-wall individual.

Alphas of course get most the attention but betas can be successful too.
 

Donfitz007

Kingfisher
Heuristics said:
Donfitz007 said:
I would say 1% alphas. You don't have to be alpha to be great with women. Even in Hollywood, Dicaprio, in my opinion, is one of a handful of Alphas.

At some point unless the woman is really high status she has to settle for a beta. Dicaprio continues to amaze despite his high age... Unlike many in hollywood he hasn't settled. At this point, he's almost mirroring Clooney's trajectory. I just hope he doesn't settle down with a near-wall, or post-wall individual.

Alphas of course get most the attention but betas can be successful too.

Exactly, the problem is really in the wording. True betas are those who are close to Alphas but not there yet. However, beta has been washed out and become the term used to describe those who have the opposite of alpha traits.
 

Heuristics

 
Banned
Donfitz007 said:
Heuristics said:
Donfitz007 said:
I would say 1% alphas. You don't have to be alpha to be great with women. Even in Hollywood, Dicaprio, in my opinion, is one of a handful of Alphas.

At some point unless the woman is really high status she has to settle for a beta. Dicaprio continues to amaze despite his high age... Unlike many in hollywood he hasn't settled. At this point, he's almost mirroring Clooney's trajectory. I just hope he doesn't settle down with a near-wall, or post-wall individual.

Alphas of course get most the attention but betas can be successful too.

Exactly, the problem is really in the wording. True betas are those who are close to Alphas but not there yet. However, beta has been washed out and become the term used to describe those who have the opposite of alpha traits.

They are second tier men, but there are only a small number of alphas. Many true betas only need to work on themselves or raise their status, in whatever domain that it is, and then they can have success.
 

Lance Blastoff

Woodpecker
Gold Member
The VAST majority of PUA types aren't really "alpha" in the sense most people think.

I think most guys that are dominant personality types are characterized by their self confidence. "True alphas" are guys that life comes generally easy to and aren't too afraid of things. They tend to be born into better circumstances and tend to be both physically attractive and naturally strong. Their confidence builds their success, their success builds their confidence. They look very different at 19 than at 45. Some guys develop self confidence later in life and other guys lose it after they fail repeatedly at something or stop being respected. A lot of "natural alpha" guys peak in high school / college and become loser gammas later in life.

(I suspect that VERY, very few of the men on this board would be what you would describe as "natural alphas". Most are too busy having cool lives and building something to hang out here.)
 

Stadtaffe

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Gold Member
The usage of the word we're talking about:
"alpha:

informal
denoting a person who has a dominant role or position within a particular sphere.
"take turns cooking for each other if one of you is too much of an alpha chef" "

Simply means being dominant, or not being passive. Masculinity is dominance symbolically speaking.

Alpha is being masculine. Which you can express through a variety of methods: succeeding in whatever you do, which could be in the workplace, with social relationships, in competition etc.

Men are born to compete. That's our biological role, to fight the competition and get our genes passed on.

You are the sum of your parts, that much is true. So you are an amalgamation of all your ancestors who passed DNA onto you. They survived whatever hardships the world has known, beyond that, found a mate, and then reproduced. So sure, you could say some people are born alphas. No doubt about it. Many athletes are born with physical gifts none of us were born with. They were born lucky.

The real beauty of the human condition is that we have intellect and reasoning, and self-awareness. We can use tools, and use medicine to heal us when we are sick. Above all, we can improve if we have the desire to. While we are tremendously social and group-oriented animals, one man can move mountains if he so desires. Frequently I think of Tesla, he did so much to change the world.

Your position on the social hierarchy determines the amount of serotonin your brain releases, in other words the higher you are in status, the better you feel. To illustrate the point, that's why you see chad on the dancefloor not giving a fuck, with his ball-cap backwards calling everyone "bro". You can learn many things from Chad, but part of the way he acts, is well, because he's Chad and he's higher up on the ladder than you. He feels good all the time. Your goal should be to feel like him, but on a deeper level you should have a desire to make yourself better.

The task you have before you is to climb the dominance hierarchy. Better to be good at something in a small domain, than to be average at a few things across different domains. That's what we call a niche. They serve a very clear purpose.

Alphas are not just chad-athletic types. You have alphas in business, politics, the arts, and so on.

As far as getting higher up the ladder: the answer to that should be self-evident. As I said you find a niche, which you may already have. Improve, get mentors, observe others better than you, work longer, harder and smarter. Exercise, because it is key to regulating your emotions more effectively. Have a regular schedule (why do many rich men like Warren Buffet do the same thing every day? Because it regulates your body and makes things simpler, freeing up time and energy for you to focus on the important stuff). Ensure plenty of sleep. Make sure your testosterone is at the proper levels. Get into nature. Socialize.

Remember that you are a male. If your life is in order, you are already more alpha than most. If it's not, get it in order.

One last thing: i think all alphas are very knowledgeable. Either in their domain, or across multiple domains. It doesn't hurt to educate yourself (whether in the classroom, with a book, or by learning from peers). Alphas generally know what the truth is, and don't let themselves get sidetracked by society, political correctness, or group-think.

I think the question that should be asked is not, "what is alpha?", but,
"what makes men attractive to women." And the answer is simple: wealth, status, success, and to a lesser extent athletic ability and looks.

Thus, alpha men are rich always in some way (not necessarily money, but maybe in knowledge, skill or information), have a high group status (whether that be socially, work, community, etc), and have success or mastery of one or multiple domains.

Attraction triggers are fundamentally different for women than men, therefore women are generally looking for dominance--ie masculinity.

As far as people that became alphas, it certainly happens, examples: Steve Jobs (pot smoking hippy who spent time on communes), George Lazenby (leveraged a career in modeling into becoming the next James Bond with no acting career, thereby becoming the most desired Western guy in the world maybe apart from Mick Jagger, and thus one of the most successful modern womanizers), and Roger Federer (who became the best tennis player ever arguably after getting out of his head, mastering his emotions, and working year in and year out to improve against one of the toughest rivals you could have, ever, Rafa Nadal).

To end, I'll quote the inspiring story of how Lazenby became Bond:

"George Lazenby on Bond, sex and the 60s: 'They had the pill … I was a handsome guy' "
George Lazenby was recently forced to apologise after giving a speech in Australia where -

“He spent all of the interview just talking about basically his sexual conquests, he was homophobic, he swore, he certainly wasn’t talking about his Bond movies. He downplayed the Queen a day after she died"

I really wish it were possible to hear exactly what he said but there does not seem to be any leaked videos floating around anywhere. Were any of you in the audience? If someone has a link, please post or send a PM would be great to check it out.

To those who have seen Skyfall it should be apparent what our sick and topsy-turvy world wants for characters such as James Bond or Lazenby. They are certainly the lesser 'evil' compared to many other things which are forced upon us on a daily basis and certainly discouraging rather than encouraging homosexuality must be a positive thing. Nevertheless, seems a bit wrong that he should downplay the Queen when his biggest success came out of a film On Her Majesty's Secret Service.
 

Holymanaspen

Sparrow
Orthodox Inquirer
If you're talking about a bonafide alpha male personality, a la Trump, then, genetics. I've seen it myself. Usually the man is physically bigger, but that's not everything- the personality traits have to be there do.
 

Viktor Zeegelaar

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
Everything is nurturing to a large degree. If you raise a man to be a leader, like was the case in the past, he'll take that role. If you raise him not to be a leader, then he won't, however underneath there'll always be that friction that you know you're not doing what you're supposed to do, like a lion caged in a zoo. Most men nowadays don't understand how to be a leader, or have never been told anything about it, and also have probably heard that it's a bad trait to have, for you have to be weak and effeminate to be celebrated (a man leading is old fashioned and antiquated). But women lose, men lose, children lose, families lose, communities lose, your whole civilization loses. Some have a more natural tendency towards leadership for sure but overall nowadays you'll see that to be the exception in men, most are weakened/followers by nurturing. Also height and natural factors like that don't play that much of a role, there are plenty examples of not too tall men in history who became the most important leaders, and if you look around you nowadays you don't see too much difference in height for example, there are plenty 6 ft + beta, weak minded, following men nowadays who follow society and/or women like cattle, which leads them to the abyss unfortunately.
 

7-5

Sparrow
Orthodox Inquirer
Also height and natural factors like that don't play that much of a role
To second this:

Have two over 6'5" guys at my work.
One is overbearing, gossips and is high strung.
The other is an athlete who carries himself much calmer.

Both are very loquacious.
They walk different, the air around them is different. Even when they're making the rounds in the morning: you prefer the athletic guy saying hi to you.

Sometimes you use the gifts given to you well and it shows.
 

Early Bird

Woodpecker
Catholic
If you're talking about a bonafide alpha male personality, a la Trump, then, genetics. I've seen it myself. Usually the man is physically bigger, but that's not everything- the personality traits have to be there do.
As Christians, I think we should use these terms alpha and beta very loosely as general categories rather than explicit and total characterizations.

We all display a little from column A and a little from column B, in varying degrees.

Genetics are important, and usually lead to the sort of high school chad quarter back type. This type usually doesn't have to work very hard at anything because opportunities, good results, and women are abundant. This often peaks around the early 20's and declines rapidly with age as these guys keep chasing that high they felt as the all star -- often through drugs, gambling, violence, and other forms of dangerous addiction. These guys often become lazy because they are used to things being so easy for them. They are the guys who usually go bald early, put on weight, have erectile difficulties too early, cheat on their wives, and generally refuse to act mature.

However, as Christians we cannot be biological determinists. Room must be given to grow and transcend one's particular limitations or circumstances. Something like the caste system doesn't recognize this. Same with an Atheist-materialist view. Bullied as a kid because you were a late bloomer or had a speech impediment? You are doomed to be a subservient laughingstock for eternity. A forever beta in the pecking order of the 'universe'.

I think 'alpha' is ultimately related to confidence. If the hard work, discipline and sacrifice is not there, then a phoney confidence -- aka arrogance, sarcasm, cruelty, and so on -- takes its place to compensate. You can be confident in a physical altercation if you have martial arts experience and you are generally not afraid of the person challenging you. You can be confident doing a job if you know you are good at it. This makes people naturally gravitate towards you as a leader. If you are not good at it, go practice and learn how to do it! Fail, hurt yourself, and remember that pain so you carry that lesson with you. This makes you a good father so that your words and guidance have some actual weight. "We should listen to our elders not because they are always right, but because they have much more experience of being wrong"

I've seen many physically large and somewhat intimidating men who are very weak in their convictions, and lack toughness or grit.

I've seen many small men who were extremely tough.

So it's a combination of genetics and personality. The willingness to thrive and win, with no fear of adversity is perhaps the defining masculine trait.
 

Stadtaffe

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Gold Member
To those who have seen Skyfall it should be apparent what our sick and topsy-turvy world wants for characters such as James Bond or Lazenby.
Andrew Tate made exactly the same point in the second half of this -
The woke left wants a conformist, not a maverick..
I'll be rewatching some Connery and Moore bonds from the 60s to the 80s, not watch any past the 90s again. I wish I'd never seen Skyfall, if you haven't seen it yet, don't.

Back in the day, I loved the Ghostbusters film and am so happy never to have seen the modern woke adaptation. I manage to avoid these woke remakes of everything, why did I break that rule with Bond. Damaging all the positive boyhood fun of watching those films. From now on I'll be much more guarded against culture which has been poisoned by the woke.
 
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