Where to escape coronavirus lockdowns/tyranny?

donovan

Pigeon
Orthodox Inquirer
Is Greece really a possible option? Met a Greek man the other week who said the Covid restrictions were insane (no using public transit if not vaccinated, green passes incoming). He said it was awful. Have you seen that things are not bad on the ground? Because I would love to visit Mt Athos if possible. Also, many other EU countries (Germany, Spain, France) appear to be actually blocking the unvaccinated from entering completely, without even allowing PCR tests.
My good friend just left Australia 3 weeks ago with his wife and moved to Greece. They're not Greek. Just bought a cheap apartment which gave them automatic residency. Totally anti-vaxxer.
He said they got there, the airport staff were super chill about the PCR testing, he was through customs in a few minutes. He's out and about in Athens and said nobody cares one bit about the laws - they're not being enforced anywhere and nobody cares. Protests are frequent.
The islands are even more chill - most Greek islanders are vehemently opposed to COVID measures, including the local cops.

Not saying it's a perfect place to be. I don't think anywhere is. But you're better off being in a country where even though laws exist, nobody actually pays attention to them. I would stay well away from places like France and Germany, where police actually do enforce draconian laws.
 

Don Quixote

Kingfisher
Orthodox Inquirer
I think if you live in some countries in the EU, and CA, AUS, NZ, USA, and UK, you will have a hard time existing under the new system. I think in Latin America, you'll be able to exist but will have to constantly pay "tax" to the local officials or police, anytime you want to try to do something normal, like buy groceries. I think the place that stands the best chance of having non-enforcement over time is Southern Europe and Balkans. Not saying it's the perfect place, I think if there's a hot war at any point Balkans are going to be one of the areas to watch out for. But if you want to live a semi normal life without being hassled by police all day, I think it is still the most likely option.
 

Pointy Elbows

Robin
Orthodox
The madness appears to be spreading even to Ukraine. Had a conversation with a Ukrainian that has a young friend that works at a restaurant. Today, management told them all to get vaccinated by end of September or else. These poor people. They have nothing compared to us westerners. And they are being put in an even worse situation. God bless them.

This in a country with very low vaccine rates and famous for their loose "civil controls." The poz is spreading even to such havens. I'm not discouraging anyone from finding a better circumstance, but be careful. It is looking to me like you may just have to all stand, suffer, and win.
 

donovan

Pigeon
Orthodox Inquirer
The madness appears to be spreading even to Ukraine. Had a conversation with a Ukrainian that has a young friend that works at a restaurant. Today, management told them all to get vaccinated by end of September or else. These poor people. They have nothing compared to us westerners. And they are being put in an even worse situation. God bless them.

This in a country with very low vaccine rates and famous for their loose "civil controls." The poz is spreading even to such havens. I'm not discouraging anyone from finding a better circumstance, but be careful. It is looking to me like you may just have to all stand, suffer, and win.
I was chatting with a friend today here in Australia who is personally friends with the Prime Minister of Fiji.
This guy built a retreat over in Fiji and runs shipping between Brisbane, Australia and Fiji. Early on he was planning to sail over to Fiji and ride out the COVID storm on his island retreat.
But Fiji went full blown vaccine dystopia overnight, banning people from working without the jab.
So this friend of mine asked the Fijian Prime Minister why Fiji suddenly went tyrannical on the vaccine. He told him basically 'Look, we don't want to, but it all comes down to money. The WHO and other groups put the pressure on Fiji and told us that if we don't reach a vaccine threshold, then kiss tourism revenue goodbye.'
So this is probably the same in places like Ukraine and other poorer countries. They have to choose between having a conscience, or keeping their country from economic collapse thanks to globalists' threats.
 

Laus Deo

Sparrow
Orthodox
My good friend just left Australia 3 weeks ago with his wife and moved to Greece. They're not Greek. Just bought a cheap apartment which gave them automatic residency. Totally anti-vaxxer.
He said they got there, the airport staff were super chill about the PCR testing, he was through customs in a few minutes. He's out and about in Athens and said nobody cares one bit about the laws - they're not being enforced anywhere and nobody cares. Protests are frequent.
The islands are even more chill - most Greek islanders are vehemently opposed to COVID measures, including the local cops.

Not saying it's a perfect place to be. I don't think anywhere is. But you're better off being in a country where even though laws exist, nobody actually pays attention to them. I would stay well away from places like France and Germany, where police actually do enforce draconian laws.
Pleased to hear. Greeks just don’t follow laws, it’s how they got into their financial crisis (and likely why they were singled out by the elites for the most severe punishment of all the eurozone countries). Or more accurately, they’ll insist that everyone else follows the laws while ignoring them themselves. The net result of course is that no-one follows laws.

It’s a good point generally for a Plan B country: rather than looking at the scamdemic laws and mechanisms introduced, examine which people have the most rebellious spirit.
 

Don Quixote

Kingfisher
Orthodox Inquirer
I was chatting with a friend today here in Australia who is personally friends with the Prime Minister of Fiji.
This guy built a retreat over in Fiji and runs shipping between Brisbane, Australia and Fiji. Early on he was planning to sail over to Fiji and ride out the COVID storm on his island retreat.
But Fiji went full blown vaccine dystopia overnight, banning people from working without the jab.
So this friend of mine asked the Fijian Prime Minister why Fiji suddenly went tyrannical on the vaccine. He told him basically 'Look, we don't want to, but it all comes down to money. The WHO and other groups put the pressure on Fiji and told us that if we don't reach a vaccine threshold, then kiss tourism revenue goodbye.'
So this is probably the same in places like Ukraine and other poorer countries. They have to choose between having a conscience, or keeping their country from economic collapse thanks to globalists' threats.
Ironically, if countries were to open to unvaccinated people they would probably see a surge of people moving there like the world has never seen before. And if just several nations were to bind together to support one another with trade, that free-zone would become massively successful and become a huge threat to the globalists. They could implement bitcoin, develop their own central banking, etc. Start the whole thing over.
 

El Draque

Woodpecker
Orthodox
The madness appears to be spreading even to Ukraine. Had a conversation with a Ukrainian that has a young friend that works at a restaurant. Today, management told them all to get vaccinated by end of September or else. These poor people. They have nothing compared to us westerners. And they are being put in an even worse situation. God bless them.

This in a country with very low vaccine rates and famous for their loose "civil controls." The poz is spreading even to such havens. I'm not discouraging anyone from finding a better circumstance, but be careful. It is looking to me like you may just have to all stand, suffer, and win.


Im in ukraine, theres very little in way of people taking this seriously. Went to mall yesterday maskless no one said anything. On metro i alway chin my mask, see a lot of others do this, also others without completely.

I was noticing yesterday the number of girls that do this seems to have shot up, which is a good sign.

Re the restauraunt, i guess if the managers a moron for this, then he can do that. Its ukraine, a very limited state power country, so if employers want to be little emperors ultimately they can.

No one i speak to here buys any if this. Gyms been open whole year, no one not even staff wears masks, no distancing, no spraying units madness etc. No taxi drivers ever wear masks or ask you to. If your chinning a mask security and shop assts dont say anything. Restaurant we go here, hardly any staff weat mask. Never once have had the "wear mask until seated" or sign in treatment anywhere here

Basically its life as normal with half arsed mssk mandates for shops, which no one really seems to care about.

I can tell you after a month in georgia the atmosphere here is a literal breath of fresh air.

The govt will weasle away and look to up their numbers cos tgats wgat govts do, but at least it a small state that is wary of antagonising its people.
 

Pointy Elbows

Robin
Orthodox
Im in ukraine, theres very little in way of people taking this seriously. Went to mall yesterday maskless no one said anything. On metro i alway chin my mask, see a lot of others do this, also others without completely.

I was noticing yesterday the number of girls that do this seems to have shot up, which is a good sign.

Re the restauraunt, i guess if the managers a moron for this, then he can do that. Its ukraine, a very limited state power country, so if employers want to be little emperors ultimately they can.

No one i speak to here buys any if this. Gyms been open whole year, no one not even staff wears masks, no distancing, no spraying units madness etc. No taxi drivers ever wear masks or ask you to. If your chinning a mask security and shop assts dont say anything. Restaurant we go here, hardly any staff weat mask. Never once have had the "wear mask until seated" or sign in treatment anywhere here

Basically its life as normal with half arsed mssk mandates for shops, which no one really seems to care about.

I can tell you after a month in georgia the atmosphere here is a literal breath of fresh air.

The govt will weasle away and look to up their numbers cos tgats wgat govts do, but at least it a small state that is wary of antagonising its people.
That's refreshing to hear and in line with what I was previously told about UA during all this.
 
Fact is for the Middle Classes and people in affluent areas, if anything their lives probably improved. People such as my brother had a 2 and half hour commute 5 days a week pre covid. Now he's at work twice a week max. Lives in a nice enough house in a village, has a decent income.

People ultimately couldnt give a tinker's toss for wider society, as long as they're alright and have enough material comforts and distractions in their daily environment.
The vast majority of these laptop jobs are synthetic creations in the service/FIRE economy (relying on the productivity of others), or even worse, just bullshit, PowerPoint/Outlook busy work that exists in the zombie swamp of corporate waste and bureaucracy. A lot of people are living in Lala land if they think sitting on their laptop and sending a few emails in their underwear is something they can realistically plan a future around.
 

Easy_C

Peacock
The vast majority of these laptop jobs are synthetic creations in the service/FIRE economy (relying on the productivity of others), or even worse, just bullshit, PowerPoint/Outlook busy work that exists in the zombie swamp of corporate waste and bureaucracy. A lot of people are living in Lala land if they think sitting on their laptop and sending a few emails in their underwear is something they can realistically plan a future around.
Correct in my opinion.

the type of “remote work” jobs that survive will be twofold.

The first are firefighter jobs where you have the expertise to solve complex tech problems and don’t need to be on site to do it (hence my previous recommendation that guys who are younger and want good mobility should look into specializing in one of the major corporate accounting software suites like SAP or Oracle). I’d also lump data analysis and programming work into this category.

The second is “network” jobs where you’re a dealmaker in some capacity or other. Not only are these semi location independent but if you have a good network you have a lot of power because people will know that you can create or destroy the prospects of people who need access. For example if you have the personal phone number of a Governor most people outside of that game will want to be on your good side.


The jobs In compliance, project management, and other stupid remote jobs? They’re probably going to India.
 

Jaeric

Pigeon
The vast majority of these laptop jobs are synthetic creations in the service/FIRE economy (relying on the productivity of others), or even worse, just bullshit, PowerPoint/Outlook busy work that exists in the zombie swamp of corporate waste and bureaucracy. A lot of people are living in Lala land if they think sitting on their laptop and sending a few emails in their underwear is something they can realistically plan a future around.
There are a lot of Blockchain developer jobs that are remote right now. A lot of them prefer you to live in the country that they are in but if you have experience and speak English I'm sure they would hire you.

The only problem is most of them want you to have 5 years of experience. :squintlol:
 

El Draque

Woodpecker
Orthodox
That's refreshing to hear and in line with what I was previously told about UA during all this.

I don't understand how few people here are suggesting Ukraine. Seeing some frankly fairly bonkers suggestions, i just dont get it. Can buy a really nice country property in Ukraine for 25k USD with enough land to grow produce & keep chickens etc. VISA is a bit of a ballbreaker, but where there's a will there's a way.
 

Tippy

Woodpecker
Im in ukraine, theres very little in way of people taking this seriously. Went to mall yesterday maskless no one said anything. On metro i alway chin my mask, see a lot of others do this, also others without completely.

I was noticing yesterday the number of girls that do this seems to have shot up, which is a good sign.

Re the restauraunt, i guess if the managers a moron for this, then he can do that. Its ukraine, a very limited state power country, so if employers want to be little emperors ultimately they can.

No one i speak to here buys any if this. Gyms been open whole year, no one not even staff wears masks, no distancing, no spraying units madness etc. No taxi drivers ever wear masks or ask you to. If your chinning a mask security and shop assts dont say anything. Restaurant we go here, hardly any staff weat mask. Never once have had the "wear mask until seated" or sign in treatment anywhere here

Basically its life as normal with half arsed mssk mandates for shops, which no one really seems to care about.

I can tell you after a month in georgia the atmosphere here is a literal breath of fresh air.

The govt will weasle away and look to up their numbers cos tgats wgat govts do, but at least it a small state that is wary of antagonising its people.
Yes...they have pretty extreme entry requirements (test before and test on arrival with a forced app download) which I'm sure will put some people off.

I have no idea about 'black market' stuff. Someone told me they have lots of little doctors officers that are a bit dodgy where you could bribe someone.

I don't like the idea of being some clueless gringo with absolutely no desire to be there except for the slight possibility I might be able to bribe someone for a fake vax certificate. That is like another side of the coin of someone so obsessed with fake covid they won't leave the house. It is basing your entire life on this one thing.

The question is what about your life in every other aspect apart from the fact you have the possibility of a fake certificate now? It could be good to go there, throw yourself into Russian, try and meet some Christians and based people etc...

I don't really understand how the govt there view all this. Who are they beholden to, Russia? Russia are also pushing this stuff as well but maybe with different motivations to the EU side.
 

brotherjimbob

Woodpecker
Yes...they have pretty extreme entry requirements (test before and test on arrival with a forced app download) which I'm sure will put some people off.

I have no idea about 'black market' stuff. Someone told me they have lots of little doctors officers that are a bit dodgy where you could bribe someone.

I don't like the idea of being some clueless gringo with absolutely no desire to be there except for the slight possibility I might be able to bribe someone for a fake vax certificate. That is like another side of the coin of someone so obsessed with fake covid they won't leave the house. It is basing your entire life on this one thing.

The question is what about your life in every other aspect apart from the fact you have the possibility of a fake certificate now? It could be good to go there, throw yourself into Russian, try and meet some Christians and based people etc...

I don't really understand how the govt there view all this. Who are they beholden to, Russia? Russia are also pushing this stuff as well but maybe with different motivations to the EU side.

No-one policed the app for me (deleted it after leaving airport). Nothing too extreme about the requirement for a PCR test.

No-one policed quarantine either.
 
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rainy

Kingfisher
Much of this really depends on what style of life you're willing to live and what sacrifices you're willing to make.

Right now if you were to be in a village outside large cities in a place like Bulgaria or Romania, it is as if COVID does not exist. That is not an exaggeration. You might find the odd 65+ person wearing a mask in a super market but other than that daily life is no different than years ago. And in such villages most don't even have a police station. There's almost no cops nor would they care enough to enforce anything. And even if they did like with a traffic ticket, $50 gets them on their way.

If you were to buy a house in one of these villages you could you will have to put money into it unless it is new. The costs are cheap relative to the west but if you want western standards you will need to invest. As an example, my house in a Bulgarian village does not have an indoor toilet, like many there although it has plumbing in the kitchen and indoor shower. I am planning on renovating the entire property down the road. It is 4 bedrooms, two stories, nice kitchen, a hosting room for gatherings, wood burning fireplaces in every room, with a 1/2 acre garden. The roads aren't nicely paved like in the US. There are many abandoned houses as generations left for the big cities. You would have to drive 30+ mins to get to a large retail store or city. But a house like this can be bought for 5-10K. It can be renovated with bathrooms for 10-20K.

But on the other hand no one is enforcing a damn thing. No one cares. We have plenty of space to grow our own food if we wanted as that is how my wife's grandparents lived for decades. Everything from fruits/veggies to chickens/rabbits. We have the equipment to make our own wine/rakia which many do. If you need bread or milk you just walk to the village market. If you want meat, you go down the street to the person who raises cows and simply buy fresh. My wife and kids were just at our house in the village. Kids would play outside in the back in the morning, they'd go see friends in the afternoon and have coffee/food, they'd go to the park or playground and play with others, then have get togethers for dinner. BBQ, music, dance, just have a good time. There's schools, a market, a church, a pharmacy, a cafe, a mayor, a local bar, etc. But you can easily live completely self sufficient in many of these villages.

People there have never even heard of a PCR test.
 

Don Quixote

Kingfisher
Orthodox Inquirer
Much of this really depends on what style of life you're willing to live and what sacrifices you're willing to make.

Right now if you were to be in a village outside large cities in a place like Bulgaria or Romania, it is as if COVID does not exist. That is not an exaggeration. You might find the odd 65+ person wearing a mask in a super market but other than that daily life is no different than years ago. And in such villages most don't even have a police station. There's almost no cops nor would they care enough to enforce anything. And even if they did like with a traffic ticket, $50 gets them on their way.

If you were to buy a house in one of these villages you could you will have to put money into it unless it is new. The costs are cheap relative to the west but if you want western standards you will need to invest. As an example, my house in a Bulgarian village does not have an indoor toilet, like many there although it has plumbing in the kitchen and indoor shower. I am planning on renovating the entire property down the road. It is 4 bedrooms, two stories, nice kitchen, a hosting room for gatherings, wood burning fireplaces in every room, with a 1/2 acre garden. The roads aren't nicely paved like in the US. There are many abandoned houses as generations left for the big cities. You would have to drive 30+ mins to get to a large retail store or city. But a house like this can be bought for 5-10K. It can be renovated with bathrooms for 10-20K.

But on the other hand no one is enforcing a damn thing. No one cares. We have plenty of space to grow our own food if we wanted as that is how my wife's grandparents lived for decades. Everything from fruits/veggies to chickens/rabbits. We have the equipment to make our own wine/rakia which many do. If you need bread or milk you just walk to the village market. If you want meat, you go down the street to the person who raises cows and simply buy fresh. My wife and kids were just at our house in the village. Kids would play outside in the back in the morning, they'd go see friends in the afternoon and have coffee/food, they'd go to the park or playground and play with others, then have get togethers for dinner. BBQ, music, dance, just have a good time. There's schools, a market, a church, a pharmacy, a cafe, a mayor, a local bar, etc. But you can easily live completely self sufficient in many of these villages.

People there have never even heard of a PCR test.
Yeah, I can imagine this is similar across the balkans, or most non-western countries in fact. I just can't understand how they will impose these systems on people living in rural Albania for example lol. It sounds preposterous to me. Or on all the hundreds of Greek isles. In bigger cities it's another story.
 

magaman

Woodpecker
Yeah, I can imagine this is similar across the balkans, or most non-western countries in fact. I just can't understand how they will impose these systems on people living in rural Albania for example lol. It sounds preposterous to me. Or on all the hundreds of Greek isles. In bigger cities it's another story.
They'll get to everyone eventually by coercion from all angles. It's just a matter of time now I'm afraid.
 

Jaeric

Pigeon
I don't understand how few people here are suggesting Ukraine. Seeing some frankly fairly bonkers suggestions, i just dont get it. Can buy a really nice country property in Ukraine for 25k USD with enough land to grow produce & keep chickens etc. VISA is a bit of a ballbreaker, but where there's a will there's a way.
From what I understand foreigners are not allowed to buy agricultural land. On top of that most of us would either have to be rich or marry a Ukrainian women in order to get a visa.
 

El Draque

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Yes...they have pretty extreme entry requirements (test before and test on arrival with a forced app download) which I'm sure will put some people off.

I have no idea about 'black market' stuff. Someone told me they have lots of little doctors officers that are a bit dodgy where you could bribe someone.

I don't like the idea of being some clueless gringo with absolutely no desire to be there except for the slight possibility I might be able to bribe someone for a fake vax certificate. That is like another side of the coin of someone so obsessed with fake covid they won't leave the house. It is basing your entire life on this one thing.

The question is what about your life in every other aspect apart from the fact you have the possibility of a fake certificate now? It could be good to go there, throw yourself into Russian, try and meet some Christians and based people etc...

I don't really understand how the govt there view all this. Who are they beholden to, Russia? Russia are also pushing this stuff as well but maybe with different motivations to the EU sid

Are you talking about Ukraine here?

The entry is easy really. Yes you need pcr test to enter, same pretty much everywhere (seriously, is there any country without this now?).

You have an app called V Doma (in house), which gives you 4 days to get a test. There's a place at the airport where you get PCR test results within 15 mins. So you just get that (about 20 GBP), and then neg results knock the app off (you input your code with it), and you can delete it.

Doctors adminstering the jabs are all working for the govt here, so it's not like you can go to some back street doctor who might be approachable. If that were the case, it'd be widespread.

Ultimately it's highly unlikely a foreigner can turn up and get the sort of contacts to enable this stuff. Maybe if they offer enough money, and do it through some fixer, i dont know. But i wouldn't be banking on that.

Ukraine's a cool place. Its Christian, the countryside's beautiful, the foods great, if you're single the girls are attractive. People leave you alone, and there's barely anything like the Nanny State control back home - in reality its the polar opposite. As i say, i cant understand why people here speculate on all kinds of places, and never mention it.

Visa can be a mission, but can definitely be done if you are happy to pay.
 
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