Where to escape coronavirus lockdowns/tyranny?

fortyfive

Kingfisher
Other Christian
I don't care tbh, would rather that then covid restrictions for the rest of my life.

This time next year, we won't be able to shop at our local supermarket. Things are that serious. That is the reality. Look at Germany, they want to make the vaccine mandatory from February. If/when that happens, the rest of Europe will soon follow.

I'm not having it, if people look at me weirdly because I'm a minority then it's a small price to pay. Short term pain, long term gain.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not discouraging you in any way. The future in the EU seems bleak every day more, and I'm considering seriously too where to escape the covid gulag.
But what to do for living in Africa? I don't think, that being a "digital nomad" would be always a sufficient way of life.
 

Tradcatholic

Robin
Catholic
Don't get me wrong, I'm not discouraging you in any way. The future in the EU seems bleak every day more, and I'm considering seriously too where to escape the covid gulag.
But what to do for living in Africa? I don't think, that being a "digital nomad" would be always a sufficient way of life.
One of the difficulties is that a country that seems more or less fine right now - say, El Salvador, or Ghana - might turn overnight into a brutally enforced tyranny, with a change of government, or a new policy, etc. Perhaps those two examples aren't good ones - I don't know enough about the state apparatus in these countries, and who they're beholden/indebted to. But the general point applies across the board, and this is by design. You might suddenly find yourself the victim of a "mopping up" operation, and you're unlikely to have developed by then a circle of people who might help you. Not saying don't try to escape the EU if you have a feasible plan, but learn as much as you can about your destination and the people and culture there.
 

Geo Martin

Woodpecker
Catholic
It was the greatest blow against the banking cartel since a mid century middle European regime.
I haven't seen evidence it was a CIA op. Show me please
Whoever controls the grid controls digital currencies of any kind. With the Bitcoins you still depend on the system, with cash you could go anywhere, you don't need to connect paper money to any power source in order for it to work.
Also, at the end of the day a 'bitcoin' has to be converted to an official currency (i.e u$s) for it to have any value in commerce.
 

Viktor Zeegelaar

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
Out of curiosity I was just checking out travel to Mexico. Turns out that in large parts of the country they have a semi lockdown with bars closed, 50% of restaurants/hotels open, 30% of stores. So I fear the Mexico is el dorado narrative has gone down as well. People with experience from the ground?
 

canuckj

Woodpecker
Other Christian
I had a friend who did something like that when he was 20, just because he was tired of the cold. Moved down to FL during winter, had some contacts from a friend here who's dad had an appliance business, and went down there and worked for like $50 a day moving/installing fridges and stoves.

Honestly he said he felt like he really didn't belong anywhere and if he were forced to live like that it would be an almost impossible existance. He couldn't make use of all the things in the regular gov't/economy because he was just an a tourist visa. But likewise he was also largely excluded from the underground economy, because that was conducted in Spanish, and relies extremely heavily on word-of-mouth and who-you-know transfer of information. Additionally, not being a latin immigrant, he was viewed with a certain air of suspicion.

I almost find this whole thread a little bit comical. Yes it's extremely bad in Canada and many other places, but to think that there is such a night and day difference between it and the US (or Georgia, or Serbia or where ever) that it warrants giving up all legal status, your right to work, rent an apartment, get a driver's license, and in the more foreign cases where language is an issue, even communicate or form any kind of community relationships is asinine. You can roll the dice where you are hoping it gets better while enjoying the ability to work, communicate, and not worry about being hauled off to immigration jail merely for being there, or you can sacrifice all that, on a similar gamble in a place that may end up just being a month behind the curve en-route to an even worse place.
I think this a truly balanced perspective and thank you for sharing it. I think the perception is that Americans don't really care about immigration law as they tolerate millions of illegals (even call them undocumented) and when you go down there it seems pretty much like Canada albeit with much more freedom. Americans also underestimate the difficulty of their immigration laws (there is no points systems like Australia or Canada). Most Canadian who get US citizenship is through having one American parent or marriage. I actually approached the US consulate at an investment event to discuss this and they basically admitted it would just be easier to find someone to marry down there. Otherwise it is an H1B visa and many years to citizenship. However, why hire me when you can hire a local with similar skills? For other nationals there is a green card lottery or for Cubans some kind of asylum mechanism. Native Americans are also considered dual nationals.

For more foreign locales, I lived abroad when I was young in Asia for many years and had a great life with lots of money and adventures. Doing this with children would be difficult. Think USD $20,000 or more a year for English-language education. If you look at the settlement of South America by Europeans it seems to have been done largely by groups setting up communities where they started schools, churches, etc. and could employ each other using their natives languages. Maybe if we relocated as a group and set up a colony in one of the South or Central American countries it could work.
 

canuckj

Woodpecker
Other Christian
For those considering Africa I would suggest Namibia and South Africa. Both have large white populations so you can blend in easily. With online income you could live easily in either country. South Africa can be quite violent but there are better parts and many of the Afrikaners are quite red-pilled. Afrikaans won't be that hard to learn.
 

just a human

 
Banned
Atheist
Fwiw New Hampshire , while not technically a “red state,” is a very good place to be for Covid. Definitely the best in the north east. Even in the major cities Manchester and Nashua nobody cares if you wear a mask. They have “live free or die “ on their license plates and I think that actually means something to the ppl there.

Downside is it’s definitely much more of a libertarian / just leave me alone bent. The support for the right to abortion for example would be much higher there than in the South. But that’s a small price for having neighbors who actually care about standing up to tyranny.
Kinda white pill. Is anybody here from NH?
 

fortyfive

Kingfisher
Other Christian
I had a friend who did something like that when he was 20, just because he was tired of the cold. Moved down to FL during winter, had some contacts from a friend here who's dad had an appliance business, and went down there and worked for like $50 a day moving/installing fridges and stoves.

Honestly he said he felt like he really didn't belong anywhere and if he were forced to live like that it would be an almost impossible existance. He couldn't make use of all the things in the regular gov't/economy because he was just an a tourist visa. But likewise he was also largely excluded from the underground economy, because that was conducted in Spanish, and relies extremely heavily on word-of-mouth and who-you-know transfer of information. Additionally, not being a latin immigrant, he was viewed with a certain air of suspicion.

I almost find this whole thread a little bit comical. Yes it's extremely bad in Canada and many other places, but to think that there is such a night and day difference between it and the US (or Georgia, or Serbia or where ever) that it warrants giving up all legal status, your right to work, rent an apartment, get a driver's license, and in the more foreign cases where language is an issue, even communicate or form any kind of community relationships is asinine. You can roll the dice where you are hoping it gets better while enjoying the ability to work, communicate, and not worry about being hauled off to immigration jail merely for being there, or you can sacrifice all that, on a similar gamble in a place that may end up just being a month behind the curve en-route to an even worse place.
Good post. True, people are making a big mistake coming to the States and expecting to live some Hollywood-style American dream instantly because TV sold them that vision.
I have been there, and a lot of things I found were pretty depressive, although having experience with communism.

Moving there as undocumented from Eu or Canada is a great step outside of a comfort zone, be sure of that.
You have to be mentally prepared for that loss of peace.
It's almost like being overnight homeless. Second class person (no, you are not a citizen with rights anymore), working hard for low wage, living in a bad neighborhood, eating junk food and other "benefits".
It's a step-down, even for people from third world countries, I believe.

Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be better to go directly somewhere to the wilderness and live off the grid completely.
It is hard work too (having some experience), but nature has some great advantages compared to society. It's still. Unchanging. Rules are always the same. You know what to expect.
No freaking human societal experiments. No pervert trans wolfs and bear lives matter.
Only a world created by God, where everything is perfect and real, no fake plastic Ikea flowers made in China, painted with stinking color.
Abraham was living outside Sodom for a reason. Maybe it's time to leave too.
 

Seadog

Kingfisher
Why would you not want to be in red state America? Blows my mind that someone would consider Africa over red state usa or is it just a matter of legality/visa?

What do you mean "just a matter of legality visa"? It's like saying "why not go to the moon? It's just a matter of a big rocket"

Here are the options available to me, a Canadian who's a native English speaker and professional engineer to work legally. Unless you're from a crappy country where you can claim refugee status access to the special green card lottery, other 1st world countries like the UK or Sweden have even fewer options.

-Independently, the only option is a $500k-$2m investment visa, thousands in fees, and better part of a year of waiting. Contrast this with say Australia, which uses points. I pay my fees, take some tests, still takes several months, but it's entirely in my hands.

-Being Canadian, (or Mexican) the option exists for a TN visa, but that requires a job offer in advance, and it's a temporary visa, essentially a travel visa with the right to work for a specific employer temporarily, after which you're expected to return to Canada. Having tried extensively, as soon as employers find out you aren't already legal, you're done.

-L1 company transfer. I worked on one of these, required me to be a specialized knowledge worker or upper management, a year working in your home country, and requires your company to have int'l offices, be on board with the transfer, and be willing to involved in getting lawyers, paperwork, thousands in lawyer/application fees, and several months of processing.

-H1B. The typical "immigration" visa. Capped numbers, lottery system as demand vastly exceeds supply, usually gets filled up day the visas are released by companies looking to bring Indians over on the cheap. Requires a job in advance, a company on board to pay even more fees, a once a year access point, and a fair amount of luck.

-J/F visa. Student visas. Requires you to be a student, and pay international student fees on top of already extortionist tuition. Requires acceptance, then fees and interviews and lots of waiting, and only allows for casual work. Primary purpose is study.

While it's been years since I've looked at it (so it's possible some info may be out of date) I eventually threw up my hands in frustration and decided to not be such a nomad, but as far as I can tell, that's it. Absent a million dollar investment, they all require sponsorship from a school/company, thousands in fees, lots of waiting, luck, and once you are there highly restrictive terms which companies can take advantage of since you have few options if a company screws you, save going back home.

Much like this CV19 thing, the vast, vast majority of people are simply too lazy and ignorant to actually look into the real details of a situation before forming opinions carved in stone which are wholly influenced by what they see on TV. The siren song of "well they should do it the right way like everyone else" echos a time when the rules were far more sensible. I've yet to see a society grow weak at having lots of native language speaking engineers and doctors, so I really can't fathom why the US gov't puts far more road blocks up to them coming over vs the relative of some Honduran with grade 9 who can't speak english via family reunification visas.
 

El Draque

 
Banned
Orthodox
You're 100x better off staying in UK as a refusenik, who has rights, than an unskilled person in Africa, country surfing with zero rights, presumably low funds, and sticking out like a sore thumb.

If you have money in the Third World, you can buy / rent a nice pad and pay for what you need, via local corruption. I still wouldnt fancy Africa, but i can see how with money, some people might.

If you're going there to 'get by', then forget it. Can't think of much worse tbh.

Mexico's alright, i lived there myself for a year (Merida in the Yucatan).

The people there are defintely there to be ruled over though, i wouldn't expect much fight to anything. The police are on the streets in pick up trucks with assault rifles as standard. Merida is chilled though, very low crime. I think the cartels and the Yucatan have some sort of deal that the former do business in the resort regions there, but keep crime out of the state capital. It really is very mellow, nothing like the other cities there.

It just depends on what you want to do. I dont see the point of going to any foreign country right now just to 'keep your head down', the game is changing all the time, it's a gamble, and i dont really see where it leads. If you are set on a place, and have an actionable plan to obtain residency and the contacts and resources to set up a life there, then ok, but that's a different matter.
 
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Tradcatholic

Robin
Catholic
You're 100x better off staying in UK as a refusenik, who has rights, than an unskilled person in Africa, country surfing with zero rights, presumably low funds, and sticking out like a sore thumb.

If you have money in the Third World, you can buy / rent a nice pad and pay for what you need, via local corruption. I still wouldnt fancy Africa, but i can see how with money, some people might.

If you're going there to 'get by', then forget it. Can't think of much worse tbh.

Mexico's alright, i lived there myself for a year (Merida in the Yucatan).

The people there are defintely there to be ruled over though, i wouldn't expect much fight to anything. The police are on the streets in pick up trucks with assault rifles as standard. Merida is chilled though, very low crime. I think the cartels and the Yucatan have some sort of deal that the former do business in the resort regions there, but keep crime out of the state capital. It really is very mellow, nothing like the other cities there.

It just depends on what you want to do. I dont see the point of going to any foreign country right now just to 'keep your head down', the game is changing all the time, it's a gamble, and i dont really see where it leads. If you are set on a place, and have an actionable plan to obtain residency and the contacts and resources to set up a life there, then ok, but that's a different matter.
This is all good advice. I'd just like to give a small counter-perspective, not intended as an objection.

The way things are going in some Western countries suggests that our "rights" are starting to mean very little in the eyes of the elites, although there is resistance to this, and one can find supportive lawyers to help out. Austria is proposing putting the unvaxxed in special prisons, and making them pay for their food and incarceration (in contrast to other prisoners). Since you will only end up in prison if you can't pay the fine, you will be permanently indebted to the state. It's akin to being a prisoner of war in times when slavery was still practiced. In Canada, one can't board a train without showing vaxx papers. Your grandmother who was a short 2 hour train ride away, whom you used to visit every other Sunday? You better find another way to travel. And we all know how horrific things are in Australia.

In Africa, you want to try living as a local unskilled worker, on something like $50 a month, without knowing the tricks they know, unaccustomed to a very low quality of life, sticking out as a white man, possibly subject to random violence or kidnapping/robbery attempts from people who judge, not the content of your character, but the contents of your bank account, on the basis of the colour of your skin - yeah, this sounds like a bad idea. Having said that, I don't know just exactly how "unskilled" you might be, but in a peaceful area with expats and middle class locals being a white man could also (with a bit of luck and hustling) land you a job in a hotel, or a language school, or some other institution, where you certainly wouldn't be rich, but you could be earning more than the average local labourer and carve out a niche for yourself. A life like that could be much better than a life in an urban centre in Canada or Australia with the rights of the unvaxxed. But in Africa, you're also more likely to find yourself suddenly penniless or dead if something goes terribly wrong.

If you do go to Africa, try to make contact with expat groups online (not necessarily just anti-vaxxers) before you go, try to line up a job of some kind. I've heard a lot of unvaxxed Germans are heading to Ghana and Namibia, with no intention of ever returning to Germany unless this regime ends.

There are no easy answers in this situation.
 
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Tradcatholic

Robin
Catholic
And the airport in Ghana has the best welcome sign I've ever seen.

welcome_ghana_but_not_gays.jpg
 
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