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<blockquote data-quote="Sp5" data-source="post: 1260825" data-attributes="member: 4337">I see 911 can't give up his Bolshevik - Frankfurt School theory about the origins of feminism in the West.&nbsp; Maybe literal Communists and a bunch of obscure theorists whose name 99% of Americans don't even know had some influence at the margins, but it was very minor compared to the market economics and electoral forces.There should be a new theory for discourse here.&nbsp; Call it Simeon's Razor:&nbsp; when there's a choice between interpreting the world with your eyes and ears, or believing that shadowy forces of a cabal are at work, believe in the cabal.People on the right can't admit the social effects of capitalism, which is at least as destructive of traditional ways of life as communism, because &quot;muh free market.&quot;Again, for me it's simple and easy to see:1.&nbsp; Capitalists wanted to put women to work for two reasons:&nbsp; (a) women having money allows them to buy and buy the shit they like to buy, growing demand, and(b) expanding the labor force with women keeps wages down by increasing supply.plus2.&nbsp; The political pressure created by giving women the vote, and the desire for the women constituency to have more individual money and freedom, which corresponded with (1).The forces of the market and electoral politics are more than 1000x stronger in the USA, Canada, Australia, NZ, and Europe than almost-unreadable writings of Frankfurt School theorists.At the same time the Bolsheviks were experimenting with radical equality theories (which they abandoned: it's been pointed out so many times here that the later Communist and post-Communist societies had and have more traditional women), Edward Bernays, the &quot;father of modern public relations and advertising&quot; was working to destroy the social convention against women smoking.&nbsp; That was strictly in the service of capitalism.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sp5, post: 1260825, member: 4337"] I see 911 can't give up his Bolshevik - Frankfurt School theory about the origins of feminism in the West. Maybe literal Communists and a bunch of obscure theorists whose name 99% of Americans don't even know had some influence at the margins, but it was very minor compared to the market economics and electoral forces. There should be a new theory for discourse here. Call it Simeon's Razor: when there's a choice between interpreting the world with your eyes and ears, or believing that shadowy forces of a cabal are at work, believe in the cabal. People on the right can't admit the social effects of capitalism, which is at least as destructive of traditional ways of life as communism, because "muh free market." Again, for me it's simple and easy to see: 1. Capitalists wanted to put women to work for two reasons: (a) women having money allows them to buy and buy the shit they like to buy, growing demand, and (b) expanding the labor force with women keeps wages down by increasing supply. plus 2. The political pressure created by giving women the vote, and the desire for the women constituency to have more individual money and freedom, which corresponded with (1). The forces of the market and electoral politics are more than 1000x stronger in the USA, Canada, Australia, NZ, and Europe than almost-unreadable writings of Frankfurt School theorists. At the same time the Bolsheviks were experimenting with radical equality theories (which they abandoned: it's been pointed out so many times here that the later Communist and post-Communist societies had and have more traditional women), Edward Bernays, the "father of modern public relations and advertising" was working to destroy the social convention against women smoking. That was strictly in the service of capitalism. [/QUOTE]

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