Why are women so adamantly against male self-improvement.

[Dantes]

Women aren't conditioned for self-improvement. Hence, they don't understand it nor do they give much thought to it. Their success in life is predicated on their looks and some social skills. There is only so much they can improve upon their beauty. Therefore, self-improvement is not something that propels them forward.

In men, they are concerned with the finished product, not how he has arrived there.

 

[Barron]

This is mostly a feminist-SJW-Western thing though...Many other women will be happy to have an ambitious man...It's mainly the empowered women who feel intimidated by their man looking more appealing for the ladies on the street.

This is what I couldn't wrap my head around. Looking back on my six year relationship, when I decided to head back to university and finish my degree via night classes while working full-time in the day things began to go from peaceful to argumentative to hostile the more progress I made.

I didn't understand what her problem was. Did she want to be with a loser or a man that wanted more for himself and his family? Why couldn't she see that me becoming better and more valuable meant a better life for her??

Only western women take issue with this because relationships between men and women in the west aren't about family or the long-term to them. To the western female modern relationships are only about how they feel in the moment. Why think about tomorrow with one man when there's fifty more waiting to be with you right now? Why settle when you can "Have It All"!?

 

[El Chinito loco]

Women aren't conditioned for self-improvement. Hence, they don't understand it nor do they give much thought to it. Their success in life is predicated on their looks and some social skills. There is only so much they can improve upon their beauty. Therefore, self-improvement is not something that propels them forward.

In men, they are concerned with the finished product, not how he has arrived there.

They often mistake life experiences with "self improvement" that's why they go all crazy with the finding myself shit that ends up just being a prolonged ride on the cock carousel. At the end of the day it's all basic nihilism combined with narcissism.

Experiences mean nothing for self improvement if a person is not capable of self analysis about their own behavior and life choices.

Most women are completely incapable of this type of self reflection because it's ego destroying. I believe it is mostly a masculine thing with very few women capable of long term disciplined shifts in their pattern of behavior or personality.

 

[EvanWilson]

While were at it; why are women so adamantly against female self-improvement?

What, you mean work for something?

Working for something would also imply that you 'have to do something that someone else wants'; i.e. even if it benefits you, some of the value or use would only be if someone else wants it also and they do not want to feel like they ever do anything for anyone else.

As an example, losing weight or maintaining a thin body. While the woman would benefit from not being overweight, it would also be something that other people, especially men, would like to see and want to see, so in a sense it would be like being told what to do by other people. And you can't have that if you want to always do what you want and be impulsive all the time.

 

[EvanWilson]

This is mostly a feminist-SJW-Western thing though...Many other women will be happy to have an ambitious man...It's mainly the empowered women who feel intimidated by their man looking more appealing for the ladies on the street.

This is what I couldn't wrap my head around. Looking back on my six year relationship, when I decided to head back to university and finish my degree via night classes while working full-time in the day things began to go from peaceful to argumentative to hostile the more progress I made.

I didn't understand what her problem was. Did she want to be with a loser or a man that wanted more for himself and his family? Why couldn't she see that me becoming better and more valuable meant a better life for her??

Only western women take issue with this because relationships between men and women in the west aren't about family or the long-term to them. To the western female modern relationships are only about how they feel in the moment. Why think about tomorrow with one man when there's fifty more waiting to be with you right now? Why settle when you can "Have It All"!?

The problem is that if you get improving, it also means your options are improving, especially in SMV, meaning she would have to improve or risk you going elsewhere.

BUT, if she tears you down, and your SMV declines, then she has all of the power and can walk all over you. Of course, the problem is that after a while most women would use the excuse that your SMV has declined, you are 'a loser' and then divorce rape you.

It could also be a test, that you pass by refusing to listen to her idiotic reasons as to why you should not improve yourself.

 

[Easy_C]

It not even male self improvement. My wife has gotten some flak from the older women in her social circle for her efforts to improve her physical shape, with other female relatives claiming that she is "thin enough already". It is a technically correct comment but misses the point which is that she is not trying to be "thinner" but to be in better shape.

When you witness those interactions it is pretty clear why self improvement bothers people regardless of gender. Someone else talking about going to the gym, practicing public speaking, doing educational reading, or anything along those lines reminds them that they themselves are not doing anything like that and it makes them uncomfortable.

Anecdote: one of the people who was critical of my wifes exercising suddenly became supportive after taking up an exercise regime themselves. It is nothing more than projected feelings of inferiority in most cases.

With men you can add the additional fear that they will no longer be in his league and will get replaced with a skinnier, younger model.

 

[Easy_C]

They often mistake life experiences with "self improvement" that's why they go all crazy with the finding myself shit that ends up just being a prolonged ride on the cock carousel. At the end of the day it's all basic nihilism combined with narcissism.

To be fair life experiences can be an important part of self improvement. You know the quote from Fight Club about how "everyhting else gets turned down after fighting"? That also applies in varying degrees to experiences like hurling down a cliffside at 60mph, surfing a 30 foot wave, or spending a month on the Appalachian trail.

The mistake they make is that they equate challenging and dangerous experiences like that with the sex vacations they like to have.

Hmmm, depends on the woman. My mother is sort of the one who got me into game and self improvement. I was complaining about how lame a lot of girls are and she said to me, "fortis, you need to work on your game."

Lol. When your mom says you need game, then you know it's true. She's also buying us tickets to see tony Robbins at some point in the future.

But as to other women: I think you guys covered it when you said that a lot of female value is genetically determined.

How on earth did your mom ever get to be that way? She sounds a lot smarter than most.

 

[C-Note]

When women reach 30 and their SMV and fertility start to decline, they need to know that there are beta males with low SMV/confidence around who will wife them up and provision them. If Western men suddenly get into a big self-improvement kick, in fitness, style, confidence, and charisma, it makes the women feel anxious because they know it will be harder for them to find some man who will take care of them.

 

[Dalaran1991]

When women reach 30 and their SMV and fertility start to decline, they need to know that there are beta males with low SMV/confidence around who will wife them up and provision them. If Western men suddenly get into a big self-improvement kick, in fitness, style, confidence, and charisma, it makes the women feel anxious because they know it will be harder for them to find some man who will take care of them.

Well, Australia begs to differ

 

[AboveAverageJoe]

Because other than smoke and mirrors women have very few avenues for self improvement; none of them being easy. Anytime you are doing something to improve yourself it makes others come to the self-realization that they are doing nothing to improve themselves. Its a crabs in a barrel mentality. Also in a relationship when one person male or female is doing something to improve themselves, the writing is on the wall. It is time to upgrade and the other person instinctively knows it.

 

[Sumanguru]

I actually just made this post a few days ago, when someone asked why the Manosphere is so hated:

For a long time, I had similar questions. If women *really* want to date masculine, fit, decisive men who can hold a good conversation and make them laugh, then why is men studying to become that kind of man a bad thing?

Women love "naturalness" and hate fakes. They love power and hate weakness. They will fuck a thug in a heart beat. But a guy they think is pretending to be a thug? Naw. That pretending looks artificial and weak to them. (This is an important distinction. Do most men demand authenticity before putting our dicks in? Right, of course not).

I think women don't believe that men can learn to become men. They think you either *are* a man, or you're not. Which, when you think of their experience, makes sense--besides being born with a vagina, what do you have to accomplish to be considered a woman?

Hence, to most women, "Game" is men pretending they are something that they aren't. If you pay attention, when they talk about "Game" its usually within the context of men "lying" instead of just being charming/funny/jerkish. I think that's why all these feminist-leaning media outlets are OK shitting on the Manosphere (the one resource many men have for learning how to be a man). Because from their perspective, most of the men involved on it are just fake losers. And since self-improvement isn't part of their constitution (it doesn't have to be, remember, they have vaginas, so they will always be valuable in the SMP), those fake losers will always be fake losers, so fuck them. The "real men" don't need that Manosphere bullshit.

 

[XPQ22]

If every man is a "10", how will they be able to gloat that they got a better deal than some other girl?

Reminds me of a time I posed a question to a woman: "So why do you spend so much on shoes?"

"Because I can't let some bitch on the train see me with shoes that aren't as good as hers."

Though women might like it if Western men were overall somewhat "better" in the abstract, they're not going to encourage any one man to improve himself. It doesn't materially make their lives better in any way, as they can pretty much always trade up if they want to. The only guys girls get "oneitis" for are the ones already there.

And about the only time you'll hear a woman harping about a man improving himself is in the context of a marriage or LTR where she realizes that her options are more constrained, and she's trying to change him. Outside of that context it's not really relevant.

Because from their perspective, most of the men involved on it are just fake losers. And since self-improvement isn't part of their constitution (it doesn't have to be, remember, they have vaginas, so they will always be valuable in the SMP), those fake losers will always be fake losers, so fuck them. The "real men" don't need that Manosphere bullshit.

You sometimes see similar commentary from "blue pill" men in the comments section on Roosh blog posts and elsewhere, touting their intrinsic "man-ness."

"That Manosphere shit is for losers. I'm a 'real man' and always have been. I know how to treat a lady."

 

[Private Man]

I wrote about something related to this awhile ago:

https://theprivateman.wordpress.com/2012/08/23/the-chronology-of-masculine-fail/

 

[Bear Hands]

It not even male self improvement. My wife has gotten some flak from the older women in her social circle for her efforts to improve her physical shape, with other female relatives claiming that she is "thin enough already". It is a technically correct comment but misses the point which is that she is not trying to be "thinner" but to be in better shape.

When you witness those interactions it is pretty clear why self improvement bothers people regardless of gender. Someone else talking about going to the gym, practicing public speaking, doing educational reading, or anything along those lines reminds them that they themselves are not doing anything like that and it makes them uncomfortable.

Anecdote: one of the people who was critical of my wifes exercising suddenly became supportive after taking up an exercise regime themselves. It is nothing more than projected feelings of inferiority in most cases.

With men you can add the additional fear that they will no longer be in his league and will get replaced with a skinnier, younger model.

Good for your wife for keeping in shape and inspiring some others to get their shit together. I see the end result of these "thin enough already" types several days a week, and it's not pretty. They either die early or they become bone-thin weaklings using walkers because they let their muscles atrophy into nothing in front of the television in retirement. I have seen few things sadder than an old person so weak they strain to lift anything more than 2 pounds. Aging should be treated like a degenerative disease that takes constant effort to hold back. The "thin enough already" behavior does not just affect SMV, but all quality of life, eventually.

 

[Oilrig]

It's been covered somewhat before; but most women don't have it in them, the whatever it takes mentality, to get in great shape or become super successful in their career. Most women (and many men) would rather lazily go on a crash diet, and complain about their poor salary, instead of doing the hard work of eating healthy and working out, and working hard at their jobs to get a promotion or switch companies for higher pay.

I've dated many girls who complained about how they could never lose weight, yet they would never work out and always eat fatty foods. Same goes for female coworkers and friends, constantly complain about their salaries and job titles, yet would never go above and beyond at work or look for other jobs that paid higher. And if you offer them common sense advice and solutions, they look at you like you're nuts.

Since most women don't possess that innate, whatever it takes mentality, they get mad when men try to improve themselves through natural means.

 

[El Padrone]

The other day I was with Robert Greene and 50's book, The 50th Law. A woman saw it, asked what it was and when I told her, she basically hissed.
Should of slapped her around but she was a client.

So yes, I think they're against it because it raises your stock, and in time, will leave them with an empty nest, where you used to be. Forever out of their useless orbit

 

[eljeffster]

WNB, knees to spikey, plus vagteeth look painful.

 

[Delta]

For the most part I don't know what you guys are talking about in this thread. No woman in my life has ever said anything negative about me lifting, playing sports, eating healthy, or working to advance my career. I've actually found that they're quite encouraging with that kind of stuff.

Learning game, sure, I can absolutely see women reacting negatively to that, so I never mention it. Learning how to appeal to women is of course "creepy" because girls want a guy who is naturally smooth, not a former frustrated incel chump modeling his behavior off of what he read on some websites. But game is only one facet of self-improvement. In general, women (at least the ones I've known) have far more respect for guys who work toward what they want.

 

[Private Man]

For the most part I don't know what you guys are talking about in this thread. No woman in my life has ever said anything negative about me lifting, playing sports, eating healthy, or working to advance my career. I've actually found that they're quite encouraging with that kind of stuff.

Learning game, sure, I can absolutely see women reacting negatively to that, so I never mention it. Learning how to appeal to women is of course "creepy" because girls want a guy who is naturally smooth, not a former frustrated incel chump modeling his behavior off of what he read on some websites. But game is only one facet of self-improvement. In general, women (at least the ones I've known) have far more respect for guys who work toward what they want.

What's in bold covers the gist of it.

 

[Bear Hands]

For the most part I don't know what you guys are talking about in this thread. No woman in my life has ever said anything negative about me lifting, playing sports, eating healthy, or working to advance my career.

I had a FWB a few years ago when I was still 300+ pounds who told me not to lose too much weight when she noticed I was slimming down.

I get a little embarrassed whenever I remember her because she was overweight herself with a smoking habit and drinking problems. I suspect that behavior was linked to the fact she was a 4 (I'm probably being generous for my own ego), in the fast line to the wall, and I was the only man in her life that wasn't a complete loser. She was a Jezebel reader, though I was unaware of the significance at the time. When I broke it off with her because of her near-bi-polar behavior toward me, she actually said, "I never get the guys that I want!" She provided no value to me other than pussy and some emotional validation. I believe she wanted me to stay at that place in my life because she was unwilling to improve with me and knew I would be able to do better than her.

I cannot speak for what the others in this thread have experienced, but the trend is this behavior comes from low SMV women. I freely admit that I was at one point so low that I really thought I was doomed to fuck uglies and fatties if I did not want to masturbate forever. I could not even get what most guys on the forum would consider slump busters at the time. This stuff is much more common when a man lacks the ability to pull from higher on the scale. Loser women aim for the best loser they can get, and want to keep him that way.

You probably are dealing with higher quality women who worry less about their prospects with men, so you don't deal with this kind of behavior. The kind of women I can pull now do not discourage my efforts.

Thank God I had the sense not to make that woman more than a FWB. I actually found RoK because, in my anger at her, I googled something about why I had to put up with so much shit for such mediocre pussy.