Why do you not use Steroids?

Why do the gear advocates always say, "ya but look how unhealthy other people be are" as a means of justifying steroid use? Some fatass is unhealthy, yes. That doesn't make steroids healthy.

As for most of the cons I listed, they're not up for debate. You do have to inject, have blood work done, take other drugs to combat side-effects, your estrogen does increase, there are health risks.

Sorry bro, saying you didn't go bald doesn't negate all the cons.
 

MikeS

Pelican
DamienCasanova said:
Sidney Crosby said:
I wouldn't even want to look like that guy.

When I'm 30+, I'd consider something like TRT if I was on the low side.

Legit question, What are the reasons not to do TRT?

I'm 40 and I don't think I would consider using TRT until I legitimately start feeling effects of low T (it's been my impression that quite a lot of TRT proponents in their 30s or 40s are probably in the average range but, understandably, want a boost towards the natural max range. It's not like testosterone for the average man drops like a rock once you hit middle age, graphs I've seen of the decline suggests it's something like 1% per year after 30).

My main reason - aside from having no idea yet how easy it may or may not be to get it prescribed here in Europe (lots of the first hand experiences appear to be from Americans, although I might have overlooked something there?) - is that from what I understand you should expect your natural testosterone production to be shut down for good.
It's not guaranteed that you will be able to get off TRT - if for some reason that became necessary - and end up back at your previous low to mid T.

So you are then essentially in need of testosterone from cooperative doctors and pharmacies for the rest of your life - which if you're only 30 or 40 is, statistically, quite a long time.
What if you travel a lot, or move to another country (as I have done once and could very well do again in the future one or several times)? Are you guaranteed to find the needed cooperation everywhere you go?
If not, then I guess there's always the black market, but that's most definitely not something I would be eager to delve into for years or decades of my life for crucial medicine.
 

Fortis

Crow
Gold Member
MikeS said:
DamienCasanova said:
Sidney Crosby said:
I wouldn't even want to look like that guy.

When I'm 30+, I'd consider something like TRT if I was on the low side.

Legit question, What are the reasons not to do TRT?

I'm 40 and I don't think I would consider using TRT until I legitimately start feeling effects of low T (it's been my impression that quite a lot of TRT proponents in their 30s or 40s are probably in the average range but, understandably, want a boost towards the natural max range. It's not like testosterone for the average man drops like a rock once you hit middle age, graphs I've seen of the decline suggests it's something like 1% per year after 30).

My main reason - aside from having no idea yet how easy it may or may not be to get it prescribed here in Europe (lots of the first hand experiences appear to be from Americans, although I might have overlooked something there?) - is that from what I understand you should expect your natural testosterone production to be shut down for good.
It's not guaranteed that you will be able to get off TRT - if for some reason that became necessary - and end up back at your previous low to mid T.

So you are then essentially in need of testosterone from cooperative doctors and pharmacies for the rest of your life - which if you're only 30 or 40 is, statistically, quite a long time.
What if you travel a lot, or move to another country (as I have done once and could very well do again in the future one or several times)? Are you guaranteed to find the needed cooperation everywhere you go?
If not, then I guess there's always the black market, but that's most definitely not something I would be eager to delve into for years or decades of my life for crucial medicine.

Thank you for a reasonable, measured reply on a clearly contentious topic.
 

rudebwoy

Peacock
Gold Member
^^^Ok, so I will bite to your stupid claims.

I took mostly Sustanon 250, do your "research" and you will see it is a combination of different Testosterone compounds. Why I liked taking this particular steroid is because you only have to poke once a week.

Health risk is increased blood pressure, which is a concern for me.
I don't have any other concerns about my long term health, I go to the doctor and I get checked annually. Yes, that includes the finger up the ass because I am off that age.
I know my body, last time my uric acid was high and I know that was due to certain foods I was eating.
I don't need to get constant blood work, I get it done with my annual check up.

I don't take any other drugs that includes clomid at the end of a cycle. I don't mix Test with anything else, my first cycle I mixed with Trenbolone and I was a monster (physically & mentally).

My balls don't shrink, in fact my dick gets bigger and I shoot like a hose.

My natural T always goes back to it's normal level.

I don't get acne and I don't have issues about getting bigger.

For me it is a turbo boost and I get a little ego boost from the visible results.

It has been stated on different threads, but again I will repeat it.
Once you get to the 200llb mark and it is visible you workout, women will touch you more. I have had strippers grab me like a piece of meat, even when I was covered up.
I have had Asian girls grab my ass in a club while I walked by.

Interactions with females just moves much smoother, don't get it twisted they aren't grabbing my cock and blowing me on the spot.

Now for those who are against it, that is your right and your choice.

Being small or skinny isn't an option, having a belly isn't attractive and looking like you can't handle yourself in a fight isn't cool.

The kind of women I like, tend to like dudes with good builds.
 

Ringo

Pelican
Gold Member
Personally, I've never done any.

I still have plenty of room to grow naturally - most people never reach their natural potential because it takes years of regular training and dieting. When I get there I can make an educated decision.

My flatmate is very into bodybuilding and he has done a couple of cycles and studied the subject deeply. Because you have to do it kind of on your own or with the help of guys who are in the know, there's a lot of reading and studying to do.

The whole hormonal system is very sensitive and can easily be put out of whack because by fidgeting with one variant others can try to compensate. It requires a ton of research to be optimized.

I can't see myself just poking some substances into my body blindly. I would want to be very meticulous and that takes more effort and resources than I would be willing to dispense with.

I can't see myself using a cocktail of steroids at any point down the road. But a low dosage of testosterone seems like a good option even if my levels aren't necessarily low.

Physical attributes aside, I'm very interested in the mental clearness and extra energy that is associated with it. Maybe in a few years.
 

rudebwoy

Peacock
Gold Member
Ringo said:
I can't see myself using a cocktail of steroids at any point down the road. But a low dosage of testosterone seems like a good option even if my levels aren't necessarily low.

Exactly, this is what I have always done and NEVER had any problems.

Sadly, I know some guys who take way more than the norm and have never come off the stuff.

That isn't going to end well for them.
 

Kieran

Pelican
Gold Member
rudebwoy said:
^^^Ok, so I will bite to your stupid claims.

I took mostly Sustanon 250, do your "research" and you will see it is a combination of different Testosterone compounds. Why I liked taking this particular steroid is because you only have to poke once a week.

Health risk is increased blood pressure, which is a concern for me.
I don't have any other concerns about my long term health, I go to the doctor and I get checked annually. Yes, that includes the finger up the ass because I am off that age.
I know my body, last time my uric acid was high and I know that was due to certain foods I was eating.
I don't need to get constant blood work, I get it done with my annual check up.

I don't take any other drugs that includes clomid at the end of a cycle. I don't mix Test with anything else, my first cycle I mixed with Trenbolone and I was a monster (physically & mentally).

My balls don't shrink, in fact my dick gets bigger and I shoot like a hose.

My natural T always goes back to it's normal level.

I don't get acne and I don't have issues about getting bigger.

For me it is a turbo boost and I get a little ego boost from the visible results.

It has been stated on different threads, but again I will repeat it.
Once you get to the 200llb mark and it is visible you workout, women will touch you more. I have had strippers grab me like a piece of meat, even when I was covered up.
I have had Asian girls grab my ass in a club while I walked by.

Interactions with females just moves much smoother, don't get it twisted they aren't grabbing my cock and blowing me on the spot.

Now for those who are against it, that is your right and your choice.

Being small or skinny isn't an option, having a belly isn't attractive and looking like you can't handle yourself in a fight isn't cool.

The kind of women I like, tend to like dudes with good builds.

Rudebwoy I don't doubt the positive effects with women, because even though I'm natural and still fairly small, as I've gained some size again recently I've noticed some very positive reactions from women. I'm just wondering whether for you personally when you've been at your natural peak, are women's reactions a lot different to when your on steroids?
 

rudebwoy

Peacock
Gold Member
^Good question and to be honest, it is a fine line between me being natural and on gear.

The extra 5-7llbs of "muscle" I get from Test, makes me feel great and I honestly feel girls can smell the Test on you.

However, it took me almost 20 years to get to this size and weight. I was a skinny soccer player before I started training.

As a guy who is almost 50, I don't know if I really want a sex drive of a 18 year boy all the time.
 
MikeS said:
DamienCasanova said:
Sidney Crosby said:
I wouldn't even want to look like that guy.

When I'm 30+, I'd consider something like TRT if I was on the low side.

Legit question, What are the reasons not to do TRT?

I'm 40 and I don't think I would consider using TRT until I legitimately start feeling effects of low T (it's been my impression that quite a lot of TRT proponents in their 30s or 40s are probably in the average range but, understandably, want a boost towards the natural max range. It's not like testosterone for the average man drops like a rock once you hit middle age, graphs I've seen of the decline suggests it's something like 1% per year after 30).

My main reason - aside from having no idea yet how easy it may or may not be to get it prescribed here in Europe (lots of the first hand experiences appear to be from Americans, although I might have overlooked something there?) - is that from what I understand you should expect your natural testosterone production to be shut down for good.
It's not guaranteed that you will be able to get off TRT - if for some reason that became necessary - and end up back at your previous low to mid T.

So you are then essentially in need of testosterone from cooperative doctors and pharmacies for the rest of your life - which if you're only 30 or 40 is, statistically, quite a long time.
What if you travel a lot, or move to another country (as I have done once and could very well do again in the future one or several times)? Are you guaranteed to find the needed cooperation everywhere you go?
If not, then I guess there's always the black market, but that's most definitely not something I would be eager to delve into for years or decades of my life for crucial medicine.

Good post Mike, geography is an important distinction to make as it has a big impact on the options available to you. It's a lot easier to get on and stay on TRT in the states than it is here in the UK. Here your choices are limited to trying to get it on the NHS which is by all accounts very difficult, using gel treatments which I've heard are not as effective, or trying to get it on the black market which makes it a much riskier proposition, both in terms of quality and long term availability.

I don't think it's any coincidence that the proponents of TRT on this thread are from across the pond.
 

sonoran_

Kingfisher
Gold Member
^ Dude wtf? arnt the steroid laws in Uk a lot better than the USA.

Couldnt you guys get access to Eastern European pharma quality products without much legal trouble?
 
Ringo said:
I can't see myself using a cocktail of steroids at any point down the road. But a low dosage of testosterone seems like a good option even if my levels aren't necessarily low.

Physical attributes aside, I'm very interested in the mental clearness and extra energy that is associated with it. Maybe in a few years.

I would consider this myself if my levels were low, or if I suffered from symptoms of low test long term. However it would have to be available from a legal medical source long term to be a viable option.

It's worth pointing out that this thread was not about TRT.

The OP stated that the dude in the pic was taking Test, some orals - superdrol, anadrol, winstrol, anavar, Trenbolone A, Masteron and Fat loss stuff (clen, t3, etc.) solely to build his physique.

This is not the same as being on TRT. The debate has gotten a bit twisted.

The guys who are advocating steroid use appear to be posting in the context of being on TRT, whereas the guys opposed to steroid use are thinking in the context of the whole complement of steroids being abused by the dude in the pic and others like him.
 
sonoran_ said:
^ Dude wtf? arnt the steroid laws in Uk a lot better than the USA.

Couldnt you guys get access to Eastern European pharma quality products without much legal trouble?

I don't know, I've never looked into it. But I don't think having to source it from overseas would be ideal, this would introduce potential issues with customs (or maybe not, maybe someone can comment) and would raise a question over it being available long term if something changed.
 

Kieran

Pelican
Gold Member
rudebwoy said:
^Good question and to be honest, it is a fine line between me being natural and on gear.

The extra 5-7llbs of "muscle" I get from Test, makes me feel great and I honestly feel girls can smell the Test on you.

However, it took me almost 20 years to get to this size and weight. I was a skinny soccer player before I started training.

As a guy who is almost 50, I don't know if I really want a sex drive of a 18 year boy all the time.

Interesting. Yeah 5-7 pounds of solid muscle is a lot though and I can see it being enough to push you over that edge with girls, especially with some distributed to the areas steroids are known to have particularly good affects on (delts, traps and upper chest). My long term goals (while staying natural), are to gain just another 5 pounds of muscle, and drop maybe 3 pounds of fat - sounds like nothing, but from where I am now it's going to be pretty hard, and would be the icing on the cake and about as good as I can expect to get naturally I imagine.
 

rafaeld

Robin
Gold Member
Lagavulin said:
sonoran_ said:
^ Dude wtf? arnt the steroid laws in Uk a lot better than the USA.

Couldnt you guys get access to Eastern European pharma quality products without much legal trouble?

I don't know, I've never looked into it. But I don't think having to source it from overseas would be ideal, this would introduce potential issues with customs (or maybe not, maybe someone can comment) and would raise a question over it being available long term if something changed.

Yes, it's easy to order from various European countries, I've never had an issue with customs.
 

zatara

Kingfisher
TRT makes perfect sense for anyone over 35, or with clinically diagnosed low T, I think most people in this thread would agree with that. From what I've heard its a real life changer, and is something I would imagine I'll definitely end up on in a few years. For competition level bodybuilders, or those engaging in a competitive sport where its not tested for, steroid use also makes sense as a "professional tool" thats pretty much required to compete at the top level.

Its the heavy steroid cycles that amateur guys do in their 20s that are far more questionable. Its entirely possible to be in the top 5% in English speaking countries (or top 1%, in a lot of other countries) in terms of physique while natural. At that point you're already dominating rooms, getting girls pawing you, guys respecting you etc - there's no need to use steroids to reach that point. Thats what would make me question the need for someone in their 20s engaging in:

- The extra hassle (injections, obtaining illegal supplies, limiting your travel options due to timing/drug transport issues with airports)
- The financial cost
- The potential health negatives (acne, balding, fertility issues etc)
etc

Most guys who take steroids at this age are taking them either to a) take a short cut or b) compensate for imperfect diet/training/lifestyle. Think Jersey Shore. These are the guys who really shouldn't be doing steroids, as in addition to it being unnecessary they're far more likely to fuck themselves up long-term by taking the steroids incorrectly.

I don't use steroids personally currently because I don't see the point, given the above. I vary from 210lbs-220lbs depending on time of year (winter/summer cut) at 6ft0. It took me years to get here, but I did it naturally and enjoyed both the learning and work process along the way. Doing steroids would definitely allow me to get bigger, but I already get plenty of attention based on my physique. And I'd lose cardio performance pretty quickly with more size, which is a definite concern. So the risk/cost/benefit analysis isn't worth it.
 

MikeS

Pelican
zatara said:
TRT makes perfect sense for anyone over 35...

I sometimes wonder just how young people making statements like that might be? I've seen them before - "get on TRT after 30/40", "you'll be in a nursing home by 40 if you don't start on TRT" (all right, I might have made up that second one).
Only someone in their teens or first half of their twenties can possibly think that you start feeling old and weak already at 40, let alone 30 - assuming you don't have a medical condition (which low T at that age would probably qualify as) or are lazy as fuck.

At 40 my joints are significantly more prone to minor injuries and pains than they were just five years ago (which is why I now do more calisthenics than lifting) and my sex drive is not quite as 24/7 turbo boosted as when I was a teenager, but other than that I feel damn fine and my body looks and is more fit than it has been at most points in my life (and I wasn't particularly lazy when I was younger).

Kids, life doesn't end at 40.
 

zatara

Kingfisher
MikeS said:
I sometimes wonder just how young people making statements like that might be? I've seen them before - "get on TRT after 30/40", "you'll be in a nursing home by 40 if you don't start on TRT" (all right, I might have made up that second one).
Only someone in their teens or first half of their twenties can possibly think that you start feeling old and weak already at 40, let alone 30 - assuming you don't have a medical condition (which low T at that age would probably qualify as) or are lazy as fuck.

At 40 my joints are significantly more prone to minor injuries and pains than they were just five years ago (which is why I now do more calisthenics than lifting) and my sex drive is not quite as 24/7 turbo boosted as when I was a teenager, but other than that I feel damn fine and my body looks and is more fit than it has been at most points in my life (and I wasn't particularly lazy when I was younger).

Kids, life doesn't end at 40.

I'm in my very late 20s. I've played competitive rugby to a varying level since I was a teenager, and I've noticed both a drop-off in speed and an increase in recovery time already, personally. This is completely in-line with what sports science would predict. By the time I'm 35 (or 40) theres no way I'll be capable of sustaining a similar level of performance without substantial chemical assistance. And even with that there will be big changes required.

Its possible that you might be a very rare exception, but in general peak exercise performance has started to drop-off for almost all men by age 30. By age 35 there will have been a large decrease in performance in both strength and cardio. There are a vanishingly small number of men who at age 40 can out-lift, out-run, and out-compete their 26 year old self.*

To be clear, I'm not saying life ends at 35. I'm saying that going on TRT from that age on-wards makes sense for a lot of men, because its likely most mens natural test levels will have started to dip noticeably by that stage.

*presuming their training has been consistent across the years. If they were a 26 year old lard ass and only started training in their 30s this obviously doesn't apply.
 

Fortis

Crow
Gold Member
Of course, life doesn't end after 40, but expecting to perform at the same level (physically) might be a tall order for some men. I do know some guys in their 40s who are natty and say they have had no drop off in libido or trouble keeping off fat, so it is possible.

Generally, there is no one-size-fits-all approach to this stuff. A few of my friends have low-T but absolutely no symptoms and feel fine. Some people are just different. My approach is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." TRT should be a solution, not just something you do because you're afraid of a fall off, IMO. I do know some guys who did it preventatively and they've aged very well. Totally alpha guys who started at 29-31 and are now in their forties and look late 20s/early 30s.

That's why I never say "YOU NEED TO GET ON TRT!" Do what you want.
 
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