Why do you not use Steroids?

MikeS

Pelican
zatara said:
MikeS said:
I sometimes wonder just how young people making statements like that might be? I've seen them before - "get on TRT after 30/40", "you'll be in a nursing home by 40 if you don't start on TRT" (all right, I might have made up that second one).
Only someone in their teens or first half of their twenties can possibly think that you start feeling old and weak already at 40, let alone 30 - assuming you don't have a medical condition (which low T at that age would probably qualify as) or are lazy as fuck.

At 40 my joints are significantly more prone to minor injuries and pains than they were just five years ago (which is why I now do more calisthenics than lifting) and my sex drive is not quite as 24/7 turbo boosted as when I was a teenager, but other than that I feel damn fine and my body looks and is more fit than it has been at most points in my life (and I wasn't particularly lazy when I was younger).

Kids, life doesn't end at 40.

I'm in my very late 20s. I've played competitive rugby to a varying level since I was a teenager, and I've noticed both a drop-off in speed and an increase in recovery time already, personally. This is completely in-line with what sports science would predict. By the time I'm 35 (or 40) theres no way I'll be capable of sustaining a similar level of performance without substantial chemical assistance. And even with that there will be big changes required.

Its possible that you might be a very rare exception, but in general peak exercise performance has started to drop-off for almost all men by age 30. By age 35 there will have been a large decrease in performance in both strength and cardio. There are a vanishingly small number of men who at age 40 can out-lift, out-run, and out-compete their 26 year old self.*

To be clear, I'm not saying life ends at 35. I'm saying that going on TRT from that age on-wards makes sense for a lot of men, because its likely most mens natural test levels will have started to dip noticeably by that stage.

*presuming their training has been consistent across the years. If they were a 26 year old lard ass and only started training in their 30s this obviously doesn't apply.

True, if you plan on a competition level in sports then I'm certainly not going to argue that I at 40 would be able to compete with guys 15 or 20 years younger in equivalent shape (ie. equivalent activity levels).

But staying in great shape for every day benefits should certainly be possibly for most people my age and higher, provided they don't have genuinely low T levels (I doubt I'm higher than mid range, based on the athletic but far from heavily muscled physique I've been able to build over many years of lifting. My FFMI is just under 22, the line between above average and excellent. With recent diet and exercise changes I hope to be able to put on a few more kilos of lean mass, but more than that is probably not realistic without a T "boost").
Some people can obviously also potentially be in even better shape than when they were younger if they happen to be more active at a later age than when they were younger. I walk substantially more now for instance - 5-10 km on an average day, unless there's a snow storm - including mountain hikes, and other workouts are at roughly similar intensity and frequency as when I was much younger.
But yes, I also did lift heavier at 18 - after three years of working out - than I did even before my joints started complaining a few years ago, after 20+ years of working out.
I still consider myself in overall better shape now though. And the leanest I've been since my early twenties.
 

H1N1

Ostrich
Gold Member
MikeS said:
zatara said:
TRT makes perfect sense for anyone over 35...

I sometimes wonder just how young people making statements like that might be? I've seen them before - "get on TRT after 30/40", "you'll be in a nursing home by 40 if you don't start on TRT" (all right, I might have made up that second one).
Only someone in their teens or first half of their twenties can possibly think that you start feeling old and weak already at 40, let alone 30 - assuming you don't have a medical condition (which low T at that age would probably qualify as) or are lazy as fuck.

At 40 my joints are significantly more prone to minor injuries and pains than they were just five years ago (which is why I now do more calisthenics than lifting) and my sex drive is not quite as 24/7 turbo boosted as when I was a teenager, but other than that I feel damn fine and my body looks and is more fit than it has been at most points in my life (and I wasn't particularly lazy when I was younger).

Kids, life doesn't end at 40.

My dad is 70 and would still crush 95% of the people I come across. He has some aches and pains from old injuries, and the scars of a practical man, but he is still fit and strong. He can chainsaw all afternoon, split logs for a couple of hours, reroof a house, all this sort of stuff that a lot of men a third of his age would struggle with. He still has powerful arms and a lean physique, and plenty of aggression and grit left in him. Leaving aside that he is my father, there are few men I'd less like to fight. He may not be what he once was physically, but these things are relative, and the idea that your Testosterone MUST tank and your experience of life MUST be more limited past the relatively young age of 40 is absurd.

If you eat well and moderately, remain mentally and physically active, go easy on the sauce, and stubbornly refuse to accept any diminution of your manliness, then it is possible to enjoy a great deal of vitality and vibrant masculinity well into your older years without any supplementation.
 

theking

Sparrow
At the end of the day this question really boils down to what you value in life and your risk tolerance. Running moderate amounts of steroids (lets say 500-1000mg of test or a low dose of tren) is most likely healthier than being a moderate drinker/smoker. Side effects are rare and unless you have a genetic predisposition towards something unlikely to be a major issue.

If one is complaining about the "hassle" of pinning every couple days or getting blood work done than I really don't know what to say. I spend less than 5 minutes a week doing it. Most steroids are extremely cheap and less expensive than whey protein so I don't get why people complain about cost either.

For some people its worth it, for others it is not.
 

Vaun

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Clint Barton said:
What's considered "normal" today was considered low in past generations. A total T level of 264 ng/Dl is considered normal today. There's a war against men, and testosterone is a big part of being a man.

^^ never mentioned the pros of well being, better cardiovascular health, better sexual function, increased confidence and aggression.

Or just a bunch of lazy, post hippie "feel good" baby boomer doctors that don't really care. Or that it doesn't sit right with whatever particular religion that doctor practices, etc. Mostly a problem in the US, particularly interior midwest, southeast and rural areas. For the most part a good doctor can steer you in the right direction.
 

Kwisatz

Woodpecker
I am on 2 ml of Testosterone Propionate divided into two, 1 ml doses per week. Low and consistent doses are sustainable over a mans entire life. With no ill effects. No "cycles" or excessive amounts since I am not a professional athlete. Starting TRT and maintaining a testosterone level of 850-950 is easily the best decision of my adult life. Problems start, as with anything, with overuse/misuse/abuse.

Relevant thread -> https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-28966-post-1040085.html#pid1040085
 

polar

Pelican
Gold Member
H1N1 said:
If you eat well and moderately, remain mentally and physically active, go easy on the sauce, and stubbornly refuse to accept any diminution of your manliness, then it is possible to enjoy a great deal of vitality and vibrant masculinity well into your older years without any supplementation.

Aging and its side effects can either be seen as an inevitable part of getting older, or it can be seen as a chronic disease that can and should be treated both preventively and palliatively. Y'all need to figure out what side of the fence you are on with this and make your decisions accordingly. And with regards to gear for gainz, well, it's a personal choice, and needs to be taken with the utmost respect for the potential side effects. You need to do your own research and be your own doctor.

As for me, I see aging as a chronic condition. Men in my family haven't had good track records of personal health in their later years. I'm aiming to change that lineage.

I already eat healthier and better than 80+% of guys my age, know my supplements and nootropics, and will continue to invest in my health. I'm no gorilla in the gym, but my gainz are coming along, and I will hit my goals in a matter of time. And I already have blood work as a baseline that I will maintain annually.

Personally, I'm in no rush to get on TRT or HGH, but I will consider a measured approach down the line once I find my levels below 500 and on the other side of 30. I'll have my natural gains and diet already locked in, and I will tackle it in a responsible manner with longevity and sustainability in mind.

I want to be able to walk around looking similar to Stallone when I'm pushing 70:


Your health in your 50s and 60s is based on your decisions in your 20s, 30s, and 40s...so make the right decisions.
 

Windom Earle

Pelican
Gold Member
Kwisatz said:
I am on 2 ml of Testosterone Propionate divided into two, 1 ml doses per week. Low and consistent doses are sustainable over a mans entire life. With no ill effects. No "cycles" or excessive amounts since I am not a professional athlete. Starting TRT and maintaining a testosterone level of 850-950 is easily the best decision of my adult life. Problems start, as with anything, with overuse/misuse/abuse.

Relevant thread -> https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-28966-post-1040085.html#pid1040085

1ml per week is not a low dose if it equates to 250mgs. I know everyone is different when it comes to TRT protocols, but that's half of a typical "cycle" dosage per week. What is your Testosterone level when on that dosage?

I pin .33mls every 3 days (sub q in the gut) which is .77mls/192.5mgs a week and am 5 weeks post a 12 week cycle. I'll do bloods in a week or so to see how I'm travelling. I may be pinning too much, particularly if it comes in at well over 1000 ng/dl. For reference, my cycle put me at 2,700 ng/dl on 500mgs of test enenthate per week.
 

Robert High Hawk

Kingfisher
Lifestyle has so much to do with how you work and feel. Whenever I'm in Puerto Rico, where I do a lot of work outside for various reasons, I get stronger, more energetic, slimmer, and genuinely healthier in literally every regard. The sun combined with an active lifestyle just activates something in me that gets me to a very healthy and happy state. I experience something similar when I'm chilling about in Italy.

So first people really need to look at their lifestyle. Are they really giving their bodies a chance to thrive like they should? Maybe for some people it's not an option to change their lifestyle, but it may be more sustainable to totally change your environment than poke yourself for the rest of your life.

Basically, give your body a chance before you get on TRT. This forum has definitely softened my hesitation towards TRT, but because I KNOW how much a difference certain environment can have on my physical well being, I will first just move somewhere with healthy food and and plenty of outside stuff, little internet, and live well. I see lots of old dudes in Puerto Rico who are in incredible shape. Not that many people are jacked, but they are slender, highly toned, energetic, and happy. Puerto Rico has a huge cross-section of races and I see it with all of them.

Changing your lifestyle needs to be more than just eating better and taking some supps. Look at everything from the stress of your job, how much you sit down, relationships, how much are you walking, time outside, all that stuff. Very important.
 

Vaun

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Robert High Hawk said:
Lifestyle has so much to do with how you work and feel.

Basically, give your body a chance before you get on TRT. This forum has definitely softened my hesitation towards TRT, but because I KNOW how much a difference certain environment can have on my physical well being, I will first just move somewhere with healthy food and and plenty of outside stuff, little internet, and live well. I see lots of old dudes in Puerto Rico who are in incredible shape. Not that many people are jacked, but they are slender, highly toned, energetic, and happy. Puerto Rico has a huge cross-section of races and I see it with all of them.

This is my stance as well. I wont deride any men making the choice to increase their health and virility, its none of my business. In fact making the choice to do so is admirable, as many men are ok with mediocracy.

I do however think the science of understanding of how the decrease/increase happens naturally is still very vague. I think its one part environment, the other genetics. And fully understanding these factors, to me, will allow men to mitigate their decline even more in the future. Even though I don't know how I would feel with TRT, I am sure I will take advantage of it at a later age.
 

Vienna

Kingfisher
Gold Member
I recently read some articles and studies on testosterone's supposed immuno-suppresant effects. Research still doesn't have a clear answer, but it seems that high-testosterone men have a weaker immune response to flu vaccines, for example. This could translate into weaker immune systems overall.

To the guys on TRT or cycles on here, have you experienced more frequent colds and the like when you're on vs. off testosterone?
 

polar

Pelican
Gold Member
Robert High Hawk said:
I see lots of old dudes in Puerto Rico who are in incredible shape. Not that many people are jacked, but they are slender, highly toned, energetic, and happy. Puerto Rico has a huge cross-section of races and I see it with all of them.

Devil's advocate: all those guys are actually on low dose TRT. :idea:
 

rudebwoy

Peacock
Gold Member
Test doesn't weaken your immune system, younger boys/men with high testosterone are naturally stronger.

I met some runners from Puerto Rico who were in town recently, I also was surprised how lean and healthy they looked. Living in the warm climate and getting good food does a lot for certain people, for me it does wonders as I need the vitamin D.
 

Robert High Hawk

Kingfisher
polar said:
Robert High Hawk said:
I see lots of old dudes in Puerto Rico who are in incredible shape. Not that many people are jacked, but they are slender, highly toned, energetic, and happy. Puerto Rico has a huge cross-section of races and I see it with all of them.

Devil's advocate: all those guys are actually on low dose TRT. :idea:

:mindblown3:

just too many coincidences... Even Hurricane Irma steered away from PR at the last minute...
 
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