"Why Happy People Cheat": 10,000 words, and all it spells is 'hypergamous narcissism'
- Thread starter Paracelsus
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RE: "Why Happy People Cheat": 10,000 words, and all it spells is 'hypergamou...
As always this issue can be distilled to core issues when pressed through what Ive started to call the "Fear and Desire Matrix"(TM)
Men cheat because new ass is new ass and satisfies the pathological desire for new ass
Women cheat because new dick is a new source of attention and satisfies the pathological desire for attention.
All Colins efforts at financial, emotional, and sexual security, are undone and even counter productive because they've removed the fear necessary to negate Priya's pathology
^This is how you titrate the matrix
Its that simple really.
Women need fear
As always this issue can be distilled to core issues when pressed through what Ive started to call the "Fear and Desire Matrix"(TM)
Men cheat because new ass is new ass and satisfies the pathological desire for new ass
Women cheat because new dick is a new source of attention and satisfies the pathological desire for attention.
All Colins efforts at financial, emotional, and sexual security, are undone and even counter productive because they've removed the fear necessary to negate Priya's pathology
Leonard D Neubache said:
^This is how you titrate the matrix
Leonard D Neubache said:
Its that simple really.
Women need fear
RE: "Why Happy People Cheat": 10,000 words, and all it spells is 'hypergamou...
Its that simple really.
Women need fear
[/quote]
Agreed. Said fear is totally removed by modern divorce practice, societal acceptance, and financial independence/backstop of welfare for lower income earners.
How young guys will have a healthy long-term marriage with their prospects is unanswerable to me. Hell, my generation has shitty marriage results with 2d wave feminism infecting even the most marriage-minded women from "churchian/conservative" backgrounds.
I highly recommend any married/engaged man here to read the following book:
Women's Infidelity: Living in Limbo.
https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-30028-post-1642846.html#pid1642846
This book answered many questions about my former marriage. You have to kill the inner beta.
PapayaTapper said:
Its that simple really.
Women need fear
[/quote]
Agreed. Said fear is totally removed by modern divorce practice, societal acceptance, and financial independence/backstop of welfare for lower income earners.
How young guys will have a healthy long-term marriage with their prospects is unanswerable to me. Hell, my generation has shitty marriage results with 2d wave feminism infecting even the most marriage-minded women from "churchian/conservative" backgrounds.
I highly recommend any married/engaged man here to read the following book:
Women's Infidelity: Living in Limbo.
https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-30028-post-1642846.html#pid1642846
This book answered many questions about my former marriage. You have to kill the inner beta.
goodington
Robin
RE: "Why Happy People Cheat": 10,000 words, and all it spells is 'hypergamou...
^
I can personally vouch for this. After quietly suffering for many years, I came across ROK and this forum. I then spent 2 years gradually working through the various levels of dread, with zero results (and plenty of resistance). It was only at the point where I told her I wanted a divorce that she realized I was serious and in charge of the situation. She had since lost 15 pounds, going to the gym recently and eating healthy - things she knew were important to me, but always brushed off in the past.
Like clockwork, her sex drive has come back with a vengeance and I've been happy to provide positive reinforcement by fucking her well on the regular. It also turns out she's quite submissive, and wants to do what pleases me. She's opened up to me and doesn't feel ashamed to tell me her desires. She wants me to take control and fuck her when I please. It's like I flipped a switch in her brain by threatening to leave.
Oh, and we went to couples therapy a few times. The (female) therapist literally called me an asshole for saying it was important that my wife lost weight so that I'd be physically attracted to her. So much for her bullshit advice.
^
I can personally vouch for this. After quietly suffering for many years, I came across ROK and this forum. I then spent 2 years gradually working through the various levels of dread, with zero results (and plenty of resistance). It was only at the point where I told her I wanted a divorce that she realized I was serious and in charge of the situation. She had since lost 15 pounds, going to the gym recently and eating healthy - things she knew were important to me, but always brushed off in the past.
Like clockwork, her sex drive has come back with a vengeance and I've been happy to provide positive reinforcement by fucking her well on the regular. It also turns out she's quite submissive, and wants to do what pleases me. She's opened up to me and doesn't feel ashamed to tell me her desires. She wants me to take control and fuck her when I please. It's like I flipped a switch in her brain by threatening to leave.
Oh, and we went to couples therapy a few times. The (female) therapist literally called me an asshole for saying it was important that my wife lost weight so that I'd be physically attracted to her. So much for her bullshit advice.
RE: "Why Happy People Cheat": 10,000 words, and all it spells is 'hypergamou...
I was only on my phone when I wrote the first reply so I thought it would be worthwhile to flesh out the premise behind my (so far very successful) approach.
For a start, we're not talking about how to run a society. We're talking about how to get inside a woman's mind and fuck around with her risk/reward sensors. When you're with a woman, never confuse these two goals. What are you trying to achieve? A lecture on truth and justice or a favourable outcome from a highly illogical and emotional creature?
You've got to focus on your goal.
When you're in an LTR, threatening to kill your spouse is unsurprisingly a bad way to enhance pair-bonding. It could possibly work to keep her in line, but only if you want your relationship to be very cold and businesslike (not a win IMO).
Alternately, threatening violence against another man because of her reinforces the idea that you're capable of said violence and that you feel passionately enough about her to engage in said violence. Cave man game applied.
"But wait, Leonard! Isn't that just going to make her act up so you'll do stupid shit to prove how much you love her?"
A valid observation, which is why you add the "explain to the kids why daddy is in jail for 25 to life" bit. Few people really take death threats to heart. It's a light-switch penalty that you suffer once, fairly quickly, and then it's over. However the threat of spending the rest of your life being the woman who's baby-daddy is in jail 'cause he killed a guy and who's kids hate her because she's a cheating whore that ruined all their lives? That's the kind of spectre that will actually loom over a woman in a serious way. It hits all the right triggers. Preservation of her children. Preservation of her income. Preservation of her reputation. All of which would be tarnished for decades if not the rest of her life.
Suddenly the risk/reward for letting her hamster run free dramatically tips back in favour of caging that little bastard.
As for the fictional player tapping your wife? Who gives a shit. He's a fictional character. A figment of her imagination. I'm not actually telling you guys to go kill some dude who fucked your wife. I'm telling you how to re-wire your wife's brain in order to ward against the issue coming up in the first place.
First sentence:
Mind games, bros.
[img=200x200]https://media.giphy.com/media/orx1z5CGPQcLu/giphy.gif[/img]
Mind games.
All for the good of the tribe.
Number one bummer said:
I was only on my phone when I wrote the first reply so I thought it would be worthwhile to flesh out the premise behind my (so far very successful) approach.
For a start, we're not talking about how to run a society. We're talking about how to get inside a woman's mind and fuck around with her risk/reward sensors. When you're with a woman, never confuse these two goals. What are you trying to achieve? A lecture on truth and justice or a favourable outcome from a highly illogical and emotional creature?
You've got to focus on your goal.
When you're in an LTR, threatening to kill your spouse is unsurprisingly a bad way to enhance pair-bonding. It could possibly work to keep her in line, but only if you want your relationship to be very cold and businesslike (not a win IMO).
Alternately, threatening violence against another man because of her reinforces the idea that you're capable of said violence and that you feel passionately enough about her to engage in said violence. Cave man game applied.
"But wait, Leonard! Isn't that just going to make her act up so you'll do stupid shit to prove how much you love her?"
A valid observation, which is why you add the "explain to the kids why daddy is in jail for 25 to life" bit. Few people really take death threats to heart. It's a light-switch penalty that you suffer once, fairly quickly, and then it's over. However the threat of spending the rest of your life being the woman who's baby-daddy is in jail 'cause he killed a guy and who's kids hate her because she's a cheating whore that ruined all their lives? That's the kind of spectre that will actually loom over a woman in a serious way. It hits all the right triggers. Preservation of her children. Preservation of her income. Preservation of her reputation. All of which would be tarnished for decades if not the rest of her life.
Suddenly the risk/reward for letting her hamster run free dramatically tips back in favour of caging that little bastard.
As for the fictional player tapping your wife? Who gives a shit. He's a fictional character. A figment of her imagination. I'm not actually telling you guys to go kill some dude who fucked your wife. I'm telling you how to re-wire your wife's brain in order to ward against the issue coming up in the first place.
First sentence:
Mind games, bros.
[img=200x200]https://media.giphy.com/media/orx1z5CGPQcLu/giphy.gif[/img]
Mind games.
All for the good of the tribe.
RE: "Why Happy People Cheat": 10,000 words, and all it spells is 'hypergamou...
We saw two therapists in trying to save our doomed marriage. In a private session with the (thankfully older, male, conservative) therapists, they each admitted to me the following therapist "axiom of truth:"
Whoever is most willing to leave the relation, whoever is the one saying no (primarily in sex, but also other matters): this is the person with ALL the power.
Women inherently/naturally learn (if not consciously cognitive to it, then instinctively) the Game. They live this shit. While you and your young bros are talking about camping, dirtbikes, and ball games, they are in a roomfull of BFFs going over this stuff - from a much earlier age than most men. Young Becca is asking Betty: "who has the upper hand in Brianna and Billy's relation?" They live for this stuff. Men learn it late - usually the hard way.
Married Men: which one are you? Are you the one saying no or are you being rejected? Who has that power? How is it being wielded against you? Once you regain that power, how will you use it? As a player/tyrant, or as a steward and leader that leads his little tribe properly?
I applaud Goodington for getting it right. You probably saved your marriage - for the better of all involved. I sure wish ROK/RVF/RedPill were around before it was way too late in my marriage.
goodington said:
We saw two therapists in trying to save our doomed marriage. In a private session with the (thankfully older, male, conservative) therapists, they each admitted to me the following therapist "axiom of truth:"
Whoever is most willing to leave the relation, whoever is the one saying no (primarily in sex, but also other matters): this is the person with ALL the power.
Women inherently/naturally learn (if not consciously cognitive to it, then instinctively) the Game. They live this shit. While you and your young bros are talking about camping, dirtbikes, and ball games, they are in a roomfull of BFFs going over this stuff - from a much earlier age than most men. Young Becca is asking Betty: "who has the upper hand in Brianna and Billy's relation?" They live for this stuff. Men learn it late - usually the hard way.
Married Men: which one are you? Are you the one saying no or are you being rejected? Who has that power? How is it being wielded against you? Once you regain that power, how will you use it? As a player/tyrant, or as a steward and leader that leads his little tribe properly?
I applaud Goodington for getting it right. You probably saved your marriage - for the better of all involved. I sure wish ROK/RVF/RedPill were around before it was way too late in my marriage.
goodington
Robin
Thanks, I appreciate the kind words. Having come through the other side I still can't believe how much re-programming is required for a man to break free of conventional wisdom. I pity those friends who remain completely in the dark about the true nature of men and women.
It still troubles me that the only way to hold power in a relationship is to play to a woman's hypergamous instinct by continuously maximizing one's own SMV and making sure that she's aware of it. However one cannot change the world, only choose whether (and how) to change oneself to fit within it.
It still troubles me that the only way to hold power in a relationship is to play to a woman's hypergamous instinct by continuously maximizing one's own SMV and making sure that she's aware of it. However one cannot change the world, only choose whether (and how) to change oneself to fit within it.
It used to be that women's role was to lock down a man. Tame him, if you will. Put the reigns on the wild stallion and make an honest man out of him, get him to settle down and give her children and a fine home to raise them in.
These roles have changed. Women don't want children, they buy their own houses, make plenty of money, etc.
What is a man's incentive to marry a woman in the first place?
It's pure fantasy to think you can mystify and captivate a woman, getting her to chase for the rest of her life.
These roles have changed. Women don't want children, they buy their own houses, make plenty of money, etc.
What is a man's incentive to marry a woman in the first place?
It's pure fantasy to think you can mystify and captivate a woman, getting her to chase for the rest of her life.
puckerman
Ostrich
RE: "Why Happy People Cheat": 10,000 words, and all it spells is 'hypergamou...
In more enlightened times, you could say this and get away with it. Nowadays, the woman might be recording you secretly. Then she will file for divorce and use this statement as evidence against you. She might even get a restraining order, and you will be homeless.
I don't what the situation is in Australia. That's how it would happen here in the USA.
Leonard D Neubache said:
In more enlightened times, you could say this and get away with it. Nowadays, the woman might be recording you secretly. Then she will file for divorce and use this statement as evidence against you. She might even get a restraining order, and you will be homeless.
I don't what the situation is in Australia. That's how it would happen here in the USA.
RE: "Why Happy People Cheat": 10,000 words, and all it spells is 'hypergamou...
My girl asked me that and I said that I would be happy. I would just do a quick phone pic and be off humming: "Younger, hotter, tighter - off to look for a hot 18-22 year old."
puckerman said:
My girl asked me that and I said that I would be happy. I would just do a quick phone pic and be off humming: "Younger, hotter, tighter - off to look for a hot 18-22 year old."
RE: "Why Happy People Cheat": 10,000 words, and all it spells is 'hypergamou...
If your marriage is so far gone that your wife is secretly recording you for future evidence then you've already fucked up a hundred times too many.
Some of you guys are really off the deep end. One to many dread manosphere articles I think.
puckerman said:
If your marriage is so far gone that your wife is secretly recording you for future evidence then you've already fucked up a hundred times too many.
Some of you guys are really off the deep end. One to many dread manosphere articles I think.
Sorry to focus on the secondary issue, but this is a really really important phrase. There is an inherent conflict of interest with therapists. If they "fix" you, they lose their cash-stream.
What most people need is aggressive life coaching, not therapy. The product therapists are really selling is personal validation through casting yourself as a victim of past trauma. Since women desperately try to avoid personal responsibility, they are not going to pay for a therapist to criticize and issue a strict set of practical dos and don'ts. Instead what they do is just run over old mommy/daddy trauma again and again.
I got into this messed up situation in my last relationship where she was going to therapy and the therapist was advising her not to go out with me anymore. That was fine with me because I had already tried to extrictate myself due to her neediness, but then she would keep reaching out and I would ask her "what would your therapist say if she knew you were doing this?" and her response was that her therapist didn't rule her life. And my response was that "she should, otherwise what's the point?"
By shying away from applying moral judgment, finding reasons (aka excuses) for why women behave as they do, it merely enables them. Whatever guilt they had been quietly harboring is eased by talking it through with the therapists and being given these clinical rationalizations.
^^^^
The old joke among psychiatrists is that therapy produces insight, or therapy produces changes, but never both.
Here's the guts of it, something which has its echoes in Steve Pressfield's book The War Of Art and his observations about resistance: human beings will do just about everything to avoid the mental work of actual change. They will continue their addictions not because they want to continue their habits, but simply because the ego likes things predictable and the same as yesterday, so it makes the change appear harder. A change necessitates a change in who the person is; you can't just give up the bottle, you have to give up being the sort of person who does drink in your own mind. And that change is difficult, and the dark side of ourselves always resists; as Steve Pressfield (maybe with tongue in cheek) noted, Adolf Hitler had wanted to be a painter in his early years. He sucked at it, though. He actually found it easier to start a world war than face a blank canvas knowing he sucked as an artist.
In hindsight, I suspect this is why on the Australian version of The Biggest Loser one of the few success stories who took the weight off and kept it off was a guy who, during one of the cathartic stupid jump-off-a-cliff challenges, kept screaming "The new me!" to push himself through ... and called the weight loss business he ran afterwards by that name. If you change your behaviour, the ego will only accept and foster the change if you force it to accept that you are changing the very person you are.
Therapy invariably involves exploration of why you are the person you currently are. The problem is that finding out you're an alcoholic because your Dad gave you sips from the bottle every weekend but nothing but bitterness otherwise ignores the crucial question that therapy all but seeks to avoid you asking yourself: Okay, so now what?
Narcissism also isn't helped by therapy much because therapy is coming from the idea that identity transcends behaviour. The problem with this is that a narcissist is nothing but themselves (I cringe when I listen to Jim Carrey's cringeworthy pep talk: one of his very lines is "Like you, I was afraid about the idea of going out and doing something bigger than myself. But that's when I realised -- there actually is nothing bigger than myself.)
Indeed one of the tells for a narcissist with a family is that when the condition is pointed out to them, their first response is "I want to stop being a narcissist, I want to change." Not "I'm worried about how I'm hurting my kids with my narcissism." Therapy often makes narcissism worse, not better, because as said, it generates insight or change, but never both ... and narcissists can't do anything with insight alone, because insight is still I. I. I. Me. Me. Me.
The old joke among psychiatrists is that therapy produces insight, or therapy produces changes, but never both.
Here's the guts of it, something which has its echoes in Steve Pressfield's book The War Of Art and his observations about resistance: human beings will do just about everything to avoid the mental work of actual change. They will continue their addictions not because they want to continue their habits, but simply because the ego likes things predictable and the same as yesterday, so it makes the change appear harder. A change necessitates a change in who the person is; you can't just give up the bottle, you have to give up being the sort of person who does drink in your own mind. And that change is difficult, and the dark side of ourselves always resists; as Steve Pressfield (maybe with tongue in cheek) noted, Adolf Hitler had wanted to be a painter in his early years. He sucked at it, though. He actually found it easier to start a world war than face a blank canvas knowing he sucked as an artist.
In hindsight, I suspect this is why on the Australian version of The Biggest Loser one of the few success stories who took the weight off and kept it off was a guy who, during one of the cathartic stupid jump-off-a-cliff challenges, kept screaming "The new me!" to push himself through ... and called the weight loss business he ran afterwards by that name. If you change your behaviour, the ego will only accept and foster the change if you force it to accept that you are changing the very person you are.
Therapy invariably involves exploration of why you are the person you currently are. The problem is that finding out you're an alcoholic because your Dad gave you sips from the bottle every weekend but nothing but bitterness otherwise ignores the crucial question that therapy all but seeks to avoid you asking yourself: Okay, so now what?
Narcissism also isn't helped by therapy much because therapy is coming from the idea that identity transcends behaviour. The problem with this is that a narcissist is nothing but themselves (I cringe when I listen to Jim Carrey's cringeworthy pep talk: one of his very lines is "Like you, I was afraid about the idea of going out and doing something bigger than myself. But that's when I realised -- there actually is nothing bigger than myself.)
Indeed one of the tells for a narcissist with a family is that when the condition is pointed out to them, their first response is "I want to stop being a narcissist, I want to change." Not "I'm worried about how I'm hurting my kids with my narcissism." Therapy often makes narcissism worse, not better, because as said, it generates insight or change, but never both ... and narcissists can't do anything with insight alone, because insight is still I. I. I. Me. Me. Me.
Therapy can be helpful, but depends on the perception and truth-level of the therapist.
For some people voicing their problems can be helpful in itself.
However most if not all therapist are now coming from the educational gulags where a mix of woke Social Justice, feminism, equalism, globalist open borders - essentially CNN on steroids is being taught to them. Add to it the Blue Pill view and the very very limited view of life and why we really are on this Earth, then you are in deep shit when visiting 98% of all therapists. You could find a Jordan Peterson who is a clinical psychologist, but chances are you will find the usual moron, brainwashed psycho or SJW.
There is a good saying among our side of the Red Pill crowd - "Nothing will end your relationship or marriage faster than therapy counseling sessions." And I can back it up - all the couples I knew who went to couples therapy - all divorced.
I knew one woman who had some spiritual perception about things and she said that she studies psychology just in order to become a therapist. Then she said that she does not apply anything she learnt from it. That is how you go about it.
For some people voicing their problems can be helpful in itself.
However most if not all therapist are now coming from the educational gulags where a mix of woke Social Justice, feminism, equalism, globalist open borders - essentially CNN on steroids is being taught to them. Add to it the Blue Pill view and the very very limited view of life and why we really are on this Earth, then you are in deep shit when visiting 98% of all therapists. You could find a Jordan Peterson who is a clinical psychologist, but chances are you will find the usual moron, brainwashed psycho or SJW.
There is a good saying among our side of the Red Pill crowd - "Nothing will end your relationship or marriage faster than therapy counseling sessions." And I can back it up - all the couples I knew who went to couples therapy - all divorced.
I knew one woman who had some spiritual perception about things and she said that she studies psychology just in order to become a therapist. Then she said that she does not apply anything she learnt from it. That is how you go about it.
RE: "Why Happy People Cheat": 10,000 words, and all it spells is 'hypergamou...
It's the same with taking the red pill. If a man is fully bluepill, and has a set of beliefs and values and behavioral patterns that are wrapped up in it, this often goes to the core of his identity. Taking the red pill is often a conversion experience, because you have to reject your previous view of who you are and how you relate to women, and start being a different person.
Of course, just like with therapy, or any other transition from dysfuctional behavior to becoming successfully functional, you still are yourself. Before the conversion experience, you think your dysfunctional pattern is a core of your identity. However, after you lay down whatever dysfunction you've become attached to, you find you still have the same self identity, but now you are stronger and better.
Unfortunately, many are never able to let go of their old identity and break away from whatever dysfunctional pattern they are stuck in. Likewise, most men are unable to take the red pill.
Paracelsus said:
It's the same with taking the red pill. If a man is fully bluepill, and has a set of beliefs and values and behavioral patterns that are wrapped up in it, this often goes to the core of his identity. Taking the red pill is often a conversion experience, because you have to reject your previous view of who you are and how you relate to women, and start being a different person.
Of course, just like with therapy, or any other transition from dysfuctional behavior to becoming successfully functional, you still are yourself. Before the conversion experience, you think your dysfunctional pattern is a core of your identity. However, after you lay down whatever dysfunction you've become attached to, you find you still have the same self identity, but now you are stronger and better.
Unfortunately, many are never able to let go of their old identity and break away from whatever dysfunctional pattern they are stuck in. Likewise, most men are unable to take the red pill.