Why the movie Fight Club is so popular within the Self help / PUAs / Red pill crowd ?

churros

 
Banned
Quintus Curtius said:
Yeah, I get that. But I think you need to remember a few things.
...

I agree with this. Just saying I understand where Patrice is coming from.

Have you never had that sensation of seeing someone upper class whining about some butshit you thought was irrelevant? Because you had it rougher? That's what he's feeling.

Now, maybe he misrecognises that there's an actual problem there, I agree. Because it's not just whiny bullshit. What Patrice and the SJWs need to recognise is that class alone divides man.

All the same, the great thing about this segment is that Patrice actually captures all of these truths in his few short remarks. Even though he doesn't spin them out, because of the shitty interviewers.
 

churros

 
Banned
In concernt Chris Cornell said "this next one is about killing your boss. It's about coming to work early one morning cause you have a special agenda and you're going to shoot him in the fucking head."


Not mixing up threads, it's relevant!
 

Hypno

Crow
Patrice O'Neal is focussing on the conflict between the character and society, and views it as a young man's Falling Down. He's not sympathetic because his challenges with society were greater.

He misses the challenge between the main character and himself. If you consider the Brad Pitt and Edward Norton characters, that is what the whole film is about. One is blue pill, one is red pill.
 
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There are many reasons to like Fight Club.

+ Masculinity no matter what your place in life - all men are at least tough Sigmas with frame
+ against capitalist exploitation
+ resistance there, but actually not violent against people (compare it to Antifa or BLM thugs who don't see anything wrong with killing lecturers or cops)
+ excellent cinematography

Entire production crew got fired by studio boss later - one of those movies that slipped through.

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Of course the reality is that you cannot remain in Fight Club "don't give a fuck" attitude forever, though it would be fun to do so. It is still a movie after all. But I love the detachment fostered and shown in it.
 

...

Crow
Gold Member
Quintus Curtius said:
It's politically correct and acceptable (even desirable) to talk about the struggles of women and minorities. But if you're a poor white guy, you are anonymous. You are invisible. You are the unwanted, the unloved, the downtrodden, the dispossessed. There have been tons of movies made, and books written, about the experiences of women and minorities.

Have you ever read a Charles Dickens' novel or seen The Departed?
 

Quintus Curtius

Crow
Gold Member
Cattle Rustler said:
Quintus Curtius said:
It's politically correct and acceptable (even desirable) to talk about the struggles of women and minorities. But if you're a poor white guy, you are anonymous. You are invisible. You are the unwanted, the unloved, the downtrodden, the dispossessed. There have been tons of movies made, and books written, about the experiences of women and minorities.

Have you ever read a Charles Dickens' novel or seen The Departed?


Charles Dickens was a novelist who wrote 150 years ago about the plight of the British lower classes.

"The Departed" was a crime drama about gangsters and police.

Dickens wrote good books, and "The Departed" is a good movie. But neither one of these things has anything remotely to do with the plight, struggles, or aspirations of the average white guy in the USA or England today.
 

Foolsgo1d

Peacock
Why would a black guy from the streets have any recognition for a white mans struggles and vice versa? Segregation has worked for decades and will continue to do so for decades to come.

The rich cannot have empathy with the poor or middle class and they them. You could do the same argument for tax bands. Do the lower classes want more or less taxes on those above them?

Does a black man from some hood in the US have anything in common with a white man from suburbia or a low income area? They don't and never will because the machine has put them in two camps separated by high walls.
 

Paracelsus

Crow
Gold Member
Foolsgo1d said:
Why would a black guy from the streets have any recognition for a white mans struggles and vice versa? Segregation has worked for decades and will continue to do so for decades to come.

The rich cannot have empathy with the poor or middle class and they them. You could do the same argument for tax bands. Do the lower classes want more or less taxes on those above them?

Does a black man from some hood in the US have anything in common with a white man from suburbia or a low income area? They don't and never will because the machine has put them in two camps separated by high walls.

A quote from the ever-increasingly-predictive-and-relevant film Bulworth has application: "Black people and white people have more in common than they do with rich people."

That aside, onward, and continuing to break Tyler's rule...

you-do-not-talk-about-fight-club.gif


Coincidentally, there was another movie which addressed the same subject as Fight Club. Same year, in fact. It even beat out Fight Club for an Academy Award (in sound editing, the award given to all films that rich liberals would prefer buried). Can you guess what it was?

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The only difference between these two movies is that one of them was marketed as an action movie and therefore in the fantasy genre, and one of them was not.

The Neo of both films has two lives. In one life they are both white guys doing essentially meaningless jobs and pretending to live in the real world, and in the other life they are subversives, devoted to bringing down system/s from within. Neither film allows for two identities. Remember what is the ultimate fate of Tyler Durden in Fight Club. As Agent Smith says, commenting really on both films: "One of these lives has a future; the other does not."

I say it's basically the same movie in each because both are addressing the ennui of middle class Western men. They both are touching on the fact there is a system all around you that does not require your input in any meaningful way. They also (or rather as a result) touch, in a fundamental way, on the narcissism that is endemic to the West and which comes about because of the lack of healthy coming-of-age rituals. Those of you who read a lot of Last Psychiatrist will probably know where I am going with this, so rather than bore you all with another restatement of the topic, I'll leave one crumb at the trailhead for you to contemplate. How far you go down the road from there is up to you.

When you glance over the Shittypedia entry for Fight Club you're given reasons a voiceover was used:

Uhls started working on an early draft of the adapted screenplay, which excluded a voice-over because the industry perceived at the time that the technique was "hackneyed and trite". When Fincher joined the film, he thought that the film should have a voice-over, believing that the film's humor came from the Narrator's voice.[29] The director described the film without a voice-over as seemingly "sad and pathetic".

The Last Psychiatrist expands on this aspect of filmmaking:

Voice overs are supposed to be an example of bad or lazy writing, but I have a theory: when a movie has a voice over, it means the character is being dishonest. Not "it wasn't me who stole the cookies" dishonest, but "it's not as simple as it looks, you don't know the whole story, let me explain" dishonest. In other words: BS. This can be consciously manipulative (The Usual Suspects) or unconsciously rationalizing (Sex And The City). The voice over pulls you into the mind of the character and so you are less able to make an objective assessment about what you see. What's important about it is that the story would be impossible to tell without the VO because no one would buy it.

Narcissism is defined by making the world relate only to you. It is about convincing the rest of the world of the story that you tell them as your identity.
 

Barron

 
Banned
Gold Member
Oddly enough: another movie that hits on the same themes that also came out the same year, only marketed as a comedy (but became so much more):

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Indeed something unusual, even for Hollywood, was going on twenty years ago
 
Fight Club and even the Matrix are not movies that would be made today.

Fight Club is way too masculine and anti-establishment at the same time. They don't want to get close there and give men any ideas. The same is true with The Matrix. They dunked the movie into the stupid-sauce in parts 2 and 3, but could not completely delete the message.

The progressive critics back then described the movie as macho-fascist - keep in mind that this was in still saner times. Now they would call it full on NAZI, decry the lack of diversity, the lack of strong female role models, the lack of Muslims, lack of fat actors, lack of biracial relationships, lack of gays and trans-people etc. They would have to change the entire script to make it half-way SJW-conform.

Studios now have diversity and gender consultants. What would those psychos have to say about the movie?

Recently I watched the new Twin Peaks series which is directed by David Lynch and it seems that he has enough clout so that the movie studio lets him do what he wants. The funny part is that the Twin Peaks universe is still in the 1990s without any changes. It is still cool, bizarre and weird. And only later did I realize that there was no gender-swapping, no empowered super-women, no diversity hires where Twin Peaks is now 40% black and Latino. It seems to be marooned back in time of 1991. Those places exist in reality, but not in Hollywood social justice land.
 

sterling_archer

Hummingbird
Nice, I knew that Lynch wouldn't fall down to his knees. Twin Peaks and all his movies give important messages about ones psyche and how the world operates. Jay Dyer has very well written analysis of Lynch in his book Esoteric Hollywood.
 

Atlanta Man

Ostrich
Gold Member
I think is is worth noting the main characters in both films did not have children. A lot of existential angst in life is ameliorated by having kids. I do not know this from experience, because I am childless, but many of my peers with children have expressed this to me. I know for fucking sure the meaning of life is not work, I know this from experience.
 

Enigma

Hummingbird
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
Quintus Curtius said:
When it comes to "ideas," I'd say that I don't agree with every single thing the movie tells us. There is a nihilistic streak running through the film that doesn't match my own philosophy of life. I understand where it comes from (it springs from modern man's repressed rage at his marginalization in the face of feminism, egalitarianism, and modernity), but I don't think it's the answer. I have a different vision.

Think of the scene on the bus where Tyler and the unnamed Edward Norton character are looking at the ads on the walls of the bus. They see a picture of a well-muscled frame. Tyler says, "Is this what a man looks like? Self-improvement is masturbation...self-destruction, now that's an idea." Or something to that effect.

Consider also the scene where Edward Norton beats himself up in his boss's office. It's as if males are turning their collective rage inward on themselves, rather than outward against the weasels, parasites, and scum who sold them out. I don't believe in self-destruction as an antidote for our modern ills. I have a different prescription for our malaise.

But here again, even though I don't agree with everything the movie posits, I can still recognize that it is a supreme piece of cinematic art.

Tyler is not supposed to be the "hero".

The Narrator was too much of a pussy, and Tyler is his polar opposite, his shadow.

Neither is a fully healthy individual, which is why the Narrator becomes schizophrenic and later tries to kill himself. Rather than accepting both parts of his personality and psyche, he splits them in two.

That's why the movie is worse than the book.

For one, it glorifies Tyler, when he's too destructive. You're not supposed to take everything he says seriously. He's just the opposite of the main character.

Second of all, it turns the ending into some kind of love story, rather than the (attempted) suicide that it's supposed to be. The main character is supposed to be killed by his unwillingness to accept the dark side of his unconscious.

And third, it kills off Tyler. He's a part of the Narrator's personality; he wasn't supposed to be killed.

The healthy masculine character would have been the Narrator and Tyler integrated, with both the light and dark elements of his personality.

Instead he kills off the dark side of his masculinity to hold hands with some crazy drug addict.
 

Malone

Pelican
Gold Member
Enigma said:
Neither is a fully healthy individual, which is why the Narrator becomes schizophrenic and later tries to kill himself. Rather than accepting both parts of his personality and psyche, he splits them in two.

He didn't try to kill himself. There's two places you could say that - one when Tyler blew up his apartment (while he was on a trip) - and at the end where he shot himself (to kill Tyler.)

That's why the movie is worse than the book.

That's objectively wrong. The book is shit compared to the movie.

And third, it kills off Tyler. He's a part of the Narrator's personality; he wasn't supposed to be killed.

I'd say rather that he integrated Tyler.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
The ending was honestly the one part of the movie that wildly set off my bullshit alarms. You don't trick your alter ego into thinking he's dead by pretending to kill yourself. That's not clever. It's just retarded.

And this is coming from someone who never read the book.
 

TigerMandingo

 
Banned
1999 was a legendary year for movies! American Beauty, Fight Club, Matrix, Magnolia, and Office Space just to name some of the red-pill ones!!

Mainstream music was even good back then. I look at the movies in theaters now and none of it gets me excited like the old days. Aaaaah...
 

TooFineAPoint

Ostrich
Protestant
^
one of those movies is not like the others...

American Beauty is a homo's version of the world, replete with a grown man "finding himself" by working in fast food and smoking pot, a family torn asunder, and (of course) the masculine man being secretly gay. Topped off with the whip cream and cherry of faux insightful/artistic plastic bags flowing in the wind. No clothes for the emperor on that one.

But otherwise, it was a great year for films.

Let's put Bringing Out The Dead and Eyes Wide Shut on there instead of AB.
 

TigerMandingo

 
Banned
Yea, I agree. I actually didn't like American Beauty, just meant that it was influential on the redpill scene more than anything else.

I changed the channel when they were watching a plastic bag floating in the air. Fucking retarded.
 

Enigma

Hummingbird
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
Malone said:
He didn't try to kill himself. There's two places you could say that - one when Tyler blew up his apartment (while he was on a trip) - and at the end where he shot himself (to kill Tyler.)

*spoilers* (obviously)



The final scene in the book is him trying to kill himself twice, first with explosives and then with a gun, shooting himself in front of Marla. He fails both times and the book closes with him in a mental hospital.

The movie covers this all up with a feel good Hollywood ending, where he somehow kills his toxic masculinity alterego by shooting himself in the cheek and lives happily every after.
 
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