Will there be a binding legal decision against indefinite lockdowns?

When will the first (binding, ultimate) legal victory against the lockdowns take place?

  • It will never happen

    Votes: 12 52.2%
  • Within 1 month

    Votes: 5 21.7%
  • Within 3 months

    Votes: 2 8.7%
  • Within 6 months or by the end of the year

    Votes: 4 17.4%

  • Total voters
    23
  • Poll closed .
I am wondering your take on the success of legal challenges to unlimited discretion or authority of any given civil authority or central power (for example a state governor). Will these eventually be successful? An alternative or natural direction the topic might go would be, "Does it matter?"
 

kel

Kingfisher
People seem to be going hard against Elon.

I don't know what to think about him (and his companies), in general. I'm not the kind of person (like too many seem to be) to just categorize people into "kween" or "Nazi" simply like that, but even still Elon is tough to figure out. But, on this matter, I'm glad to see him speaking out and I'm very interested in the massive, bipartisan Twitter and blogosphere hate coming at him.
 

Enhanced Eddie

Pelican
Gold Member
The hate coming at him is bipartisan? I thought conservatives were generally in favor of ending the lockdown, which is what he's suing for - right? Or are they mad at him for destroying his own stock for no reason? lol
 

Magnus Stout

Sparrow
They’re primarily attacking Musk because he’s deviating from the scrip. I knew things were scary orchestrated when both the Chamber of Commerce (business class) and the ACLU were in agreement to support the lockdown. Those groups should have sued the minute the first lockdown order was issued.

The other weird thing: most state judiciaries simply followed the lockdown schedule, even though they’re an independent branch. How can the judiciary remain an “independent and impartial” branch if it’s running in lockstep with the executive? Their actions demonstrate bias and hostility to any challenges to government overreach.

The most successful defenses of freedom have been focused on overturning restrictions to worship (ex: Mississippi, Kentucky and Virginia). A broad challenge would be best if you could take depositions and review emails from these leaders (such as in Michigan). The idea would be to reveal that these governors don’t know what the hell they’re doing and are following faulty models, to the detriment of their citizens.

If the legal profession was not overwhelmingly pozzed, they’d stop this nonsense with a few injunctions and show cause orders. But, denial of Logos reduces and impairs your rationality. This “pandemic card” is so powerful that it’s not going away. Expect it to be further refined as a weapon.
 
Here in Europe it was very creepy to see how quickly all the banks, e-commerce shops and telecommunication providers jumped the gun. Each one had an ad ready "stay at home, save lives" bla bla. They literally put on all the posters, all the ads and all the online messages within a day of the lockdown being announced. Their synchronization with the governments was excellent, flawless.

It usually takes a while before one shoots or publishes a new advertisement. Somehow not the case in March 2020.
 

Dr. Howard

Peacock
Gold Member
In Wisconsin the State Supreme Court is expected to overturn the Governor's "safer at home" order this week. So I guess we'll find out soon!
Arguments concluded Wed last week and still no decision. I take that as a good sign that they know what they decide will be contentious.
 
Arguments concluded Wed last week and still no decision. I take that as a good sign that they know what they decide will be contentious.
I just saw that the supposed make up of the court is 5-2 "conservative" with at least one justice saying that the stay at home order is "tyrannical". If this order is not revoked, it will be an all time low in finding another way to lose the sanity or culture wars of the modern day.

ps - "It will never happen" in the poll is sweating the #2 slot "Within a month" ... already!
 

Dr. Howard

Peacock
Gold Member
I just saw that the supposed make up of the court is 5-2 "conservative" with at least one justice saying that the stay at home order is "tyrannical". If this order is not revoked, it will be an all time low in finding another way to lose the sanity or culture wars of the modern day.

ps - "It will never happen" in the poll is sweating the #2 slot "Within a month" ... already!
Ok, well that would make sense with the delay then. The democratic governor knows that he is going to lose and so is doing his best to delay and pacify ahead of the decision (they loosened some rules yesterday)

Furthermore, in the april? state election one of the supreme court justice seats went to democrat. So, if the Dems are angling for some kind of substantial delay so that this new judge can weigh it, that would work as well.
 
It is helped by the completely incoherent (I imagine planned to a certain extent) application of the law, too. As we know, even beyond law, the optics of "You can congregate in markets, alcohol and marijuana stores" --- but not in churches anywhere near the same degree --- is the essence of stupid, especially given the Constitution of the United States.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
Keep in mind that these lockdowns were never going to be sustainable into the future and the elites more than anyone were quite aware of this.

When you see governors and such stubbornly pressing on with "the plan" despite it being in some cases clearly illegal as well as electoral suicide you have to recognize that these people are not attempting to get a certain outcome so much as they are declaring their allegiance to the elites, and you can bet that no matter how many of them are voted out in disgrace they will quickly find their way into some high level position in a globalist organisation like the UN or the WHO.

This sort of predictive awareness is going to be important going forward if you want to understand what elected officials will and will not do when it comes down to the crunch. If you're viewing their options under the lens of democracy then you will be routinely confounded by the moves they make. Members of the deep state are more like soldiers in a military. "Governor" for example is a role they play but it's not their rank, and that rank is maintained well after they're finished playing the role of "governor".
 

Dr. Howard

Peacock
Gold Member
Keep in mind that these lockdowns were never going to be sustainable into the future and the elites more than anyone were quite aware of this.

When you see governors and such stubbornly pressing on with "the plan" despite it being in some cases clearly illegal as well as electoral suicide you have to recognize that these people are not attempting to get a certain outcome so much as they are declaring their allegiance to the elites, and you can bet that no matter how many of them are voted out in disgrace they will quickly find their way into some high level position in a globalist organisation like the UN or the WHO.

This sort of predictive awareness is going to be important going forward if you want to understand what elected officials will and will not do when it comes down to the crunch. If you're viewing their options under the lens of democracy then you will be routinely confounded by the moves they make. Members of the deep state are more like soldiers in a military. "Governor" for example is a role they play but it's not their rank, and that rank is maintained well after they're finished playing the role of "governor".
True, as an in state example.

After I left state government I moved back to the area after a number of years. The agency I used to work for (normal, not law enforcement) underwent a change at the top where a conservative was appointed and gutted it. All of the senior actors in the agency left and re appeared in similar positions in the state university system. Their "ranks" were maintained as well, if you drew an org chart you would see that the same people were supervising the same underlings that they were at the previous agency.

In government, this is mainly due to the civil service system where you maintain seniority regardless of the agency you work for. So if you were a Manager level 2 in the department of diversity, you are also qualified and entitled to be a Manager level 2 in the department of nuclear energy....despite them being totally unrelated in function.
 

The WI Supreme Court strikes down the Governor's order. Looks like it was within 1 month!
This is a tremendous victory, but may not be an ultimate victory. It is certainly binding in preventing the governor from issuing the lockdown completely on his own authority. However, he could get the Republican legislature to agree to some restrictions. Also, local county and city governments could still issue restrictions.

This will actually be an ultimate victory at least in some areas, because many smaller counties with no cases will ease restrictions a lot. Bigger, liberal cities like Milwaukee and Madison will probably issue stringent restrictions, but people will be able to drive to a nearby county where things are open, and the restrictions will start to unravel from there.

After all, Wisconsin's case load and death rate are on the low end, and even that must be mostly in the Milwaukee area. Their statewide death rate is only 72 per million. The rural counties and towns have no need for these restrictions. The pressure in those places to open up will be high.
 

Dr. Howard

Peacock
Gold Member
This is a tremendous victory, but may not be an ultimate victory. It is certainly binding in preventing the governor from issuing the lockdown completely on his own authority. However, he could get the Republican legislature to agree to some restrictions. Also, local county and city governments could still issue restrictions.

This will actually be an ultimate victory at least in some areas, because many smaller counties with no cases will ease restrictions a lot. Bigger, liberal cities like Milwaukee and Madison will probably issue stringent restrictions, but people will be able to drive to a nearby county where things are open, and the restrictions will start to unravel from there.

After all, Wisconsin's case load and death rate are on the low end, and even that must be mostly in the Milwaukee area. Their statewide death rate is only 72 per million. The rural counties and towns have no need for these restrictions. The pressure in those places to open up will be high.
Wisconsin Tavern league has already advised all bars in the state to open, as even if they are now in violation there will be no way to uphold the penalty in court.

I hope the republican legislature does what they said and just leaves it to individual counties to set their rules.

edit: I'm personally giving it 2 weeks to see what happens before I go crazy and run into walmart at peak hours mask-less. Then again I'm also still recovering from a serious illness.
 
If you're viewing their options under the lens of democracy then you will be routinely confounded by the moves they make.
Interesting points. Very plausible, at least as a portion of the overall explanation. Lenny, is this in general understood chaos everyone picks it up as in a dog whistle, or are they directly notified to carry out the "orders"?

Also, what do you see at the eventuality, then, given that the entirety of the situation is unsustainable? The major problem here is that it's more prepping since "life and death" truly isn't the reality. Yet.
 

Magnus Stout

Sparrow
Just read the ruling here: https://www.wpr.org/sites/default/files/wi_legislature_v._andrea_palm_-_decision.pdf

Basically, the Republican Court sided with the Republican Legislator that the Governor unlawfully gave DHS (an administrative agency) blank-check authority in violation of required Rulemaking procedures.

Open question: will this restrict 1) if governors themselves act, or 2) if mayors do? The Court seemed skeptical of Covid claims, but wary to be seen as overtly political.
 
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