Will there be a financial crash in 2023?

Will there be a financial crash in 2023?

  • Yes

    Votes: 26 70.3%
  • No

    Votes: 11 29.7%

  • Total voters
    37
  • Poll closed .

Cynllo

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
For discussion, use:

 

Thomas More

Crow
Protestant
I voted yes, but I will hedge my bets, and say it might only be a 2008 style crash, not an end of the Soviet Union type crash.

However, a really hard crash across the US and all its allies is possible.

Also, it might manage to wait until 2024 or 2025. One way or the other, I think something between medium hard and extreme is coming within a couple of years max.
 

Feyoder

Pelican
For discussion, use:


Didn't we just have a crash? Things are looking good right now. Covid and the vax madness are being slowly memory holed.
 

It_is_my_time

Crow
Protestant
The guy I trust the most on big things like this is @HarmlessYardDog. He does a great job of predicting things, sometimes over a year out. When it comes true, he will retweet his original tweet that predicted the event which eventually did come true. He doesn't make a ton of predictions, he makes funny posts, and does other things on his account. But when he predicts it comes true.

He predicted inflation would be far worse than any "expert" predicted, and he was correct. He predicted that the MNRA vaccine would be a bust. He has predicted a lot of things.

Regarding 2023 he has said "Experts predict there will be a rise in unemployment due to layoffs and restructuring. This will be a repeat of 2022 where they underestimate the employment crisis just as badly."

If there isn't an economic crash in 2023, it will come soon. The debt to GDP and personal debt is so off the balance that it can't be sustained much longer...





 

Pete345

Kingfisher
Orthodox
No because everyone keeps talking about it.
There is great wisdom in this. The evil people who push these bubbles and collapses want to do it under cover of darkness, always with some lame excuse to cover their tracks. When everyone is talking about it and expecting it, there is too much spotlight on the usual suspects and they can't act. Let's pray it'll be mild. Depending on the country or state you're in, I think it will be harsher or milder, but not global.
 

It_is_my_time

Crow
Protestant
What does "dollar remaining strong mean"? I assume you mean it will remain strong v. the Euro, because historically it just weaker and weaker and it is getting worse year by year. If v. the Euro, we will find out a lot more at this afternoon's FOMC meeting. Inflation is coming down, the national debt is too high, so many are predicting that they start culling the interest rate hikes and going for a weak USD position to encourage low interest rate growth/risk.

Do they go .75, .5, or .25 rate hike today? We find out at 2:00 PM EST.

But a strong or weak USD does not mean the economy will be good or bad. The debt is already way too high to have a strong USD policy, so if we have higher interest rates and a stronger USD in 2023 than in 2022, we will have some serious economic hardships as many businesses cannot run on 5/7/9% interest rates. If not, then it is back to money printer going brrrrr.

So, the only remaining question is how long can this charade be played? And the account I pointed out thinks it is 2023 when the charade comes to an end.
 

Towgunner

Pelican
This crash is definitely coming, but it's better described as a collapse since "crash" in financial terms has a temporary connotation to it. Will it happen in 2023? Maybe. What I think is going to happen in the near term is this. The fed's rate hikes are, predictably, having an adverse impact on the economy. That's not surprising, since our economy is structured such that it needs constant credit creation in order to function. Raising rates effectively reduces the rate of credit creation, therefore, aggregated economic growth slows. We're seeing that now. Technically the recession everyone seems to be expecting in 23 has already started, however, due to some good old wordsmithing/doublespeak, which redefined "recession", apparently, this hasn't begun just yet.

Our current situation is unique, the Federal Reserve is in a bind. They'll have to lower rates, pretty soon I suspect, and then inflation will get even worse. But, if they continue to raise rates or even keep them (presently) stable it will induce a deep recession and likely deep depression. So, at this point, they're just buying time by playing by the old rules. The IP of America, plus, advances in data analytics, could extend the life of this dead thing a little longer, but, the structure is broken.

Elsewhere I think the geopolitical situation ensures the end of our monetary system and, frankly, American hegemony. China's premier Xi's trip to Saudia Arabia signals a new order is arising, but we've seen this coming for some months now. Saudi Arabia was the cornerstone of the Petrodollar, which is the technical guarantor behind the Dollar's reserve currency status and American global dominance. Credit derives from the Petrodollar because it creates infinite demand for US Dollars. This is just my analysis, but, if you interrupt this system, even in the slightest, it has profound effects. Theoretically, our enormous debt levels are irrelevant so long as the rest of the world purchases our debt. But that's based on compulsive buy-in. A relatively small country, say, Iraq or Libya, that trades outside of this may seem to be de minimus, but, it's not about GDP or oil production, it's about making the demand for US dollars go from infinite to finite, which forces a repricing of the debt and that's catastrophic. That's already happened and its not small third-world economies.

As you can see, the US Dollar is now caught in an inflationary cycle with no end, which means the dollar perpetually becomes worth less. Another nation that stabilizes its currency in something fixed, such as backing it in gold, means it will retain value relative in one part due to the hard asset backing and also relative to the USD's consistent degradation in value (inflation). Russia has done this, and if these "sanctions" didn't exist, capital would flow there in great abundance because of what I described above. Sanctions may keep these effects from materializing in earnest for now, but, this is itself an induced prohibition on market forces which will in turn induce further perversion.

So, I'm not sure if it will be 2023 only because the fed pivot to a lower rate will induce a temporary "rush", which will be short-lived. By short-lived it could be 2-3 quarters, which depending on when they pivot could put us well within 2023. But this is all bandaids on a bursting dam.
 

It_is_my_time

Crow
Protestant
This crash is definitely coming, but it's better described as a collapse since "crash" in financial terms has a temporary connotation to it. Will it happen in 2023? Maybe. What I think is going to happen in the near term is this. The fed's rate hikes are, predictably, having an adverse impact on the economy. That's not surprising, since our economy is structured such that it needs constant credit creation in order to function. Raising rates effectively reduces the rate of credit creation, therefore, aggregated economic growth slows. We're seeing that now. Technically the recession everyone seems to be expecting in 23 has already started, however, due to some good old wordsmithing/doublespeak, which redefined "recession", apparently, this hasn't begun just yet.

Our current situation is unique, the Federal Reserve is in a bind. They'll have to lower rates, pretty soon I suspect, and then inflation will get even worse. But, if they continue to raise rates or even keep them (presently) stable it will induce a deep recession and likely deep depression. So, at this point, they're just buying time by playing by the old rules. The IP of America, plus, advances in data analytics, could extend the life of this dead thing a little longer, but, the structure is broken.

Elsewhere I think the geopolitical situation ensures the end of our monetary system and, frankly, American hegemony. China's premier Xi's trip to Saudia Arabia signals a new order is arising, but we've seen this coming for some months now. Saudi Arabia was the cornerstone of the Petrodollar, which is the technical guarantor behind the Dollar's reserve currency status and American global dominance. Credit derives from the Petrodollar because it creates infinite demand for US Dollars. This is just my analysis, but, if you interrupt this system, even in the slightest, it has profound effects. Theoretically, our enormous debt levels are irrelevant so long as the rest of the world purchases our debt. But that's based on compulsive buy-in. A relatively small country, say, Iraq or Libya, that trades outside of this may seem to be de minimus, but, it's not about GDP or oil production, it's about making the demand for US dollars go from infinite to finite, which forces a repricing of the debt and that's catastrophic. That's already happened and its not small third-world economies.

As you can see, the US Dollar is now caught in an inflationary cycle with no end, which means the dollar perpetually becomes worth less. Another nation that stabilizes its currency in something fixed, such as backing it in gold, means it will retain value relative in one part due to the hard asset backing and also relative to the USD's consistent degradation in value (inflation). Russia has done this, and if these "sanctions" didn't exist, capital would flow there in great abundance because of what I described above. Sanctions may keep these effects from materializing in earnest for now, but, this is itself an induced prohibition on market forces which will in turn induce further perversion.

So, I'm not sure if it will be 2023 only because the fed pivot to a lower rate will induce a temporary "rush", which will be short-lived. By short-lived it could be 2-3 quarters, which depending on when they pivot could put us well within 2023. But this is all bandaids on a bursting dam.
The Fed/economy has been so badly mismanaged you almost have to believe they are trying to destroy the economy/country. The situation we are in right now is remarkably bad. They have to raise interest rates just so people can buy food, but they have to cut interest rates to keep businesses from collapsing.
 

Towgunner

Pelican
The Fed/economy has been so badly mismanaged you almost have to believe they are trying to destroy the economy/country. The situation we are in right now is remarkably bad. They have to raise interest rates just so people can buy food, but they have to cut interest rates to keep businesses from collapsing.

When lose credit has created such depraved social contagions such as "trans" and hostile antagonistic ideologies based solely on revenge, plus, the emerging pedophilia - this system doesn't deserve to exist any longer. I could care less about the economic ramifications to me personally at this point.
 

The_ives

Pigeon
Other Christian
I voted no because even if there's a major recession/depression in 2023, the government and Wall Street will prop up the financial markets no matter what. Doesn't matter how much money they have to print or debt they have to monetize. They will prop up the market.

That said, I expect that most people will struggle in 2023 and most people's individual economic situations will resemble a major recession or depression either due to a big rise in unemployment or a continued rise in the cost of necessities.

Yesterday my wife and I did our Christmas shopping and the stores will still well stocked with the most popular children's toys. Normally by 2 weeks before Christmas it is incredibly hard to find the popular children's toys but not this year which means that people are already heavily cutting back on their purchases which indicates that people are really struggling financially right now.

We have a neighbor family who has to put their house on the market ASAP. I'm willing to bet that the husband took a bath investing in crypto and tech stocks and now the family has to sell their very nice house to cover his losses and keep his business going. So from what I'm seeing people are sucking salt water and I expect 2023 to be a rough year.
 

rainy

Pelican
Other Christian
Yes but it’s going to impact people in different ways.

If you don’t have disposable income you’re already feeling and will feel it more next year.

That doesn’t equate to the bottom falling out and breadlines.

Gas is up, electric is up, food is up, insurance is up, many of these 50-100%+, compounded by a still broken supply chain and severe labor shortage participation rate.

Layoffs are increasing across sectors, only to get worse Q1 to confront budgets and projections.

But this is entirely different than ‘08. And there is still plenty of money in the economy it is just concentrated differently and flows differently.

Safest bet is working in essential services. Non essential expenses will continue to get cut by consumers.
 

It_is_my_time

Crow
Protestant
They went with a .5% interest rate hike. Meaning they still see inflation as an issue. It will be interesting to see what they do next time and if they can maintain a Fed rate of 4.5% next year.
 

Blade Runner

Crow
Orthodox
Our current situation is unique, the Federal Reserve is in a bind.
Yes, I've said it before many times, it is different this time ... we haven't seen this kind of debt in America, and when you added the inflationary wrinkle, it became a whole new ballgame of ... tradeoffs.
So, I'm not sure if it will be 2023 only because the fed pivot to a lower rate will induce a temporary "rush", which will be short-lived.
They typically wait until it breaks and then cut, which doesn't have to happen, but odds are that is what will in fact happen, since it happened every other time and ...
The Fed/economy has been so badly mismanaged you almost have to believe they are trying to destroy the economy/country.
That's why the rate cut will come after. If you look at the time frame of the hikes it is unprecedented, and with a more indebted system even. They are not only clearly trying to destroy the economy, they are, and they are telling you they are. With flowery language mostly because they have to claim they are trying to "stop inflation". So much for your job, though, pesky little American worker.
Doesn't matter how much money they have to print or debt they have to monetize.
You did mention it below this but effectively that much of a printing spree will be a crash/crisis/collapse.
It will be interesting to see what they do next time and if they can maintain a Fed rate of 4.5% next year.
I think they might go up a little more even, but it could be that they just lever down the QT that's ongoing. The markets think so too, which is why the market sold again after Jerome's speech. Anyone not shorting the market right now is not paying attention. I'm very strongly convicted and will not worry for 1 second if there is a "Santa rally."
 
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