Nobody is saying you shouldn't tip. The single mom here is a bitch. Tuth is correct though to call attention to the class aspect of who gets tips in restaurants and who doesn't. Seriously, he is so correct on this I am surprised anyone is arguing with it. Restaurant-pay is whacky that way. And it doesn't look right.
Woman stiffs waiter on $100 meal´s tip because shes single mom
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Tuthmosis said:Enigma said:
I knew this was coming.
It's part of the waiters' talking points. I'm telling you, these guys are practically organized to keep their little racket going. Like you need to work in a restaurant to understand how it works. We should go around asking everyone how many countries they've run whenever they talk politics, or how many times they've quarterbacked the New York Giants whenever they make assertions about sports.
First hand experience working two different jobs obviously lends to an assessment of which is worse, which is what this discussion is about. A chef just chimed in and agreed that he would rather cook than serve tables.
Why are you getting so defensive? I'm not even arguing about tips and nothing you can say will effect my "little racket" anyways. I work in one of the biggest culinary cities in the country. I didn't get a tip under 25%+ last night. I'm fine.
TheSlayer said:
Misunderstanding here. I was commenting on the fact that you said waiters do "minimal work". I agree that working at McDonalds for minimum wage sucks ass. But if I talked to customers like the people working at the local McD's I would be fired on the spot. The reason you don't work there anymore is because you were actually a hard worker unlike the other slack ass employees.
Like I said, I'm not arguing about tipping. Once you work your way into a higher class of restaurant, people always tip when you do your job.
Enigma said:
Actually, the discussion isn't about arriving at the preciseness of which "is worse," but just to say that they're sufficiently comparable--in terms of demands--to raise questions about the unique tipping privileges that waiters enjoy.
Enigma said:
I'm not sure what you're talking about here. I just thought it was funny that my work experience was brought into the discussion. The fallacy that only people who experience something can articulately discuss it is often a passive-aggressive insult or discussion slammer-statement. If you didn't realize that, I'll give you a real-life example.
EXAMPLE
Girl: "I think guys who act like gentlemen are most successful at getting girls."
Tuthmosis: "I'm curious: How many girls have you picked up?"
Architekt
Ostrich
houston said:
This. If she's short on cash, why the fuck is she spending $138 on a meal?
Tuthmosis said:
The chefs I've met at the restaurant I work in sometimes, and others I know don't take any kind of shit whatsoever from anyone in the place. If a waiter/waitress fucks up an order and it's a busy night they absolutely let loose on them lol.
Tuthmosis said:
I interpreted your last couple posts as passive aggressive but it appears I was wrong. I initially thought you had restaurant experience based on your first post and then wasn't sure after reading your subsequent responses. I can see how I could have worded that differently but I was honestly curious to whether you had first-hand knowledge. I don't believe it invalidates your opinion but I've worked in many different restaurants and done everything from dishwashing, making subs, tossing pizzas, expediting, hosting, bussing, serving, etc. In my opinion, that gives myself or someone like thedude a better understanding of what goes on.
They're definitely comparable to an extent but like thedude said, people wouldn't wait tables if there weren't a high potential for income. People actually pay to go to school to be chefs. All the professions are pretty much shit depending on the restaurant but cooking is the only one that is actually respected as a long-term career (as a chef). You can make ridiculous money in the right situation as a server and especially bartender but most people never find that situation and it's not something I want to do forever.
Don't get me wrong...despite the fact that I would never wait tables in a million years, what my guys do in the kitchen, and what I did as a grunt, was 100x harder than any front of house work.
For me, personally, waiting tables is WORSE. It is HELL.
But what I do, is HARDER. Much, much harder.
L.A. is unique in the no tipping thing, up in San Francisco they're allowed to tip out the kitchen and many restaurants frequently do.
Everyone has it hard in the kitchen, but where I agree with Tuth is that waiters typically make disproportionately more money than cooks. I've worked in kitchens where there was a strict rule that servers couldn't count their tips or handle cash in front of cooks. It was seen as disrespectful.
What's worse are fine dining restaurants. They typically pay cooks $10-$11, barely over minimum wage, but servers in those restaurants can make up to $500 a night. That's with cooks working 12 hours and servers working 6.
In the end, all comparisons are done on a case-by-case basis. In the U.S. waiting tables is looked down on but in other parts of the world, especially Europe, it's seen as an actual profession and they make an art of service, especially at the Michelin starred places.
There will always be resentment and seething from the cooks directed at servers. To be cranking out that kind of manual labor, being on your feet for that long, standing in front of a 800 degree wood burning grill, and then you see a couple limp wristed snivelling actors walking by whose parents put them through art school, complaining that this is their 5th shift in a row and they can't wait for their 3 day weekend, better goddamn believe we're gonna give those shitheads a hard time at every turn.
Anyway...
For me, personally, waiting tables is WORSE. It is HELL.
But what I do, is HARDER. Much, much harder.
L.A. is unique in the no tipping thing, up in San Francisco they're allowed to tip out the kitchen and many restaurants frequently do.
Everyone has it hard in the kitchen, but where I agree with Tuth is that waiters typically make disproportionately more money than cooks. I've worked in kitchens where there was a strict rule that servers couldn't count their tips or handle cash in front of cooks. It was seen as disrespectful.
What's worse are fine dining restaurants. They typically pay cooks $10-$11, barely over minimum wage, but servers in those restaurants can make up to $500 a night. That's with cooks working 12 hours and servers working 6.
In the end, all comparisons are done on a case-by-case basis. In the U.S. waiting tables is looked down on but in other parts of the world, especially Europe, it's seen as an actual profession and they make an art of service, especially at the Michelin starred places.
There will always be resentment and seething from the cooks directed at servers. To be cranking out that kind of manual labor, being on your feet for that long, standing in front of a 800 degree wood burning grill, and then you see a couple limp wristed snivelling actors walking by whose parents put them through art school, complaining that this is their 5th shift in a row and they can't wait for their 3 day weekend, better goddamn believe we're gonna give those shitheads a hard time at every turn.
Anyway...
I am more inclined to view tipping in a negative light rather than positive, but of course this woman didn't tip for all the wrong reasons.
I believe tipping is wrong for three main reasons:
1)The waiters are lucky people who get to work in contact with clients who are satisfied from eating and try to show off to their date, so they can receive tips. There are many people who do much more shittier jobs but receive no tips because they have less contact with satisfied show-off people. When was the last time you did tip your thrash remover, your ambulance driver, your hairdresser, your postman, construction workers, the guys who cleaned canalization, guys who repaired water pipes for your city block?
2)Since most waiters are women its just another way how society transfers money from men to women. I never tip women, but I do tip guys sometimes. The girls have many options and betas who will rush to their help, while the guys must struggle alone in this life, plus they are pressured to support women too!
3)Printing a tip on a bill is just absurd.
I believe tipping is wrong for three main reasons:
1)The waiters are lucky people who get to work in contact with clients who are satisfied from eating and try to show off to their date, so they can receive tips. There are many people who do much more shittier jobs but receive no tips because they have less contact with satisfied show-off people. When was the last time you did tip your thrash remover, your ambulance driver, your hairdresser, your postman, construction workers, the guys who cleaned canalization, guys who repaired water pipes for your city block?
2)Since most waiters are women its just another way how society transfers money from men to women. I never tip women, but I do tip guys sometimes. The girls have many options and betas who will rush to their help, while the guys must struggle alone in this life, plus they are pressured to support women too!
3)Printing a tip on a bill is just absurd.
Some major over reactions in this thread,calling her a bitch for not tipping?!
Firstly the woman is a Brit and we don't have a tipping culture. What we do do more often is round up the bill to the nearest round number. So if the bill is £42.50 I'll give £45 and say keep the change. Tipping a waiter 20-25%% like in the States? Get to fuck. That would mean a £10 tip. Only times I've done that is when I have been flush with cash and have received exceptional service that was above and beyond ( I.e two or three times in my life ).
The woman had every right not to tip since culturally we don't tip in the UK,the only reason it was a story was because she wrote her reason on the bill. We are in a recession,waiters are lucky to have jobs. But,I'm British so my cultural viewpoint is completely different from Americans.
Firstly the woman is a Brit and we don't have a tipping culture. What we do do more often is round up the bill to the nearest round number. So if the bill is £42.50 I'll give £45 and say keep the change. Tipping a waiter 20-25%% like in the States? Get to fuck. That would mean a £10 tip. Only times I've done that is when I have been flush with cash and have received exceptional service that was above and beyond ( I.e two or three times in my life ).
The woman had every right not to tip since culturally we don't tip in the UK,the only reason it was a story was because she wrote her reason on the bill. We are in a recession,waiters are lucky to have jobs. But,I'm British so my cultural viewpoint is completely different from Americans.
There is no way this is in the UK, the bill looks nothing like what I've ever seen in a restaurant here, most places add a 'Service charge' and never do they have a 'Tip______' section. Also in the article the waiter is apparently paid $2 per hour, that's illegal in this country. We have a minimum wage which is just under $10 per hour. A person paying with a VISA here would also not be signing the bill (only American Express still uses this) we use Chip and PIN.
Gotta laugh at the entitlement expected and the outrage from the 'single mothers' on reddit.
Gotta laugh at the entitlement expected and the outrage from the 'single mothers' on reddit.
Anon-A-Moose said:
I'm not letting her off the hook entirely - I was saying that I agree with what Tuth was saying.
Also - You're cherry picking from my post. I acknowledge the often bad pay of waiters (caused by the expectation of tips I imagine).
"A waiter already gets paid to work (though on the other hand, it's not very much)."
I lived in Europe most my life before I came back to the U.S. so in my experience, waiters get paid an hourly wage which is respectable, at least, compared to the U.S.. Also, depending on where you live, the culture is different (no tipping culture in England for example).
Obviously the primary reason for this is cultural inertia, ideally we'd tip both the waiter and the cook or neither one. But I think the other is that the waiter has the responsibility. If the cook screws up the order or the bartender is slow with the drinks, the waiter is the one who gets shafted. Obviously if the cook is incompetent he'll be fired eventually, but he gets paid by the hour not by the plate.
I've heard it's not uncommon for waiters to share tips with the kitchen staff and bartender as part of maintaining that positive relationship, and I've definitely heard of asshole waiters being fucked over by kitchen staff who didn't like them.
This reminds me of my experience at a Tilted Kilt recently. After dealing with horrible service as long as I could stand, about an hour, I finally called over my server and demanded my bill. When she finally came back with it I made sure to tell her that "tits don't guarantee you a tip" while putting a zero on the tip line.
Looked like she was ready to cry or something.
Looked like she was ready to cry or something.
Caligula
Ostrich
That really doesn't look like a British receipt. In most cases the tip or "service charge" is included in the UK (12 to 15 per cent I think). This is the case for 90% or more of restaurants. If you don't want to pay that you have to ask them to remove it from the bill and bring you a new one. I've only done this once and it was to make a point after receiving egregious service that made a business lunch very awkward.
In any case it's common sense that you should factor in the tip when eating out. It's part of the cost so if you can't afford to tip you can't afford to eat out it's that simple.
In any case it's common sense that you should factor in the tip when eating out. It's part of the cost so if you can't afford to tip you can't afford to eat out it's that simple.
Caligula said:
You're correct - it isn't.
Also - the article refers to the amount of money as $140.
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