Woman You Enjoy Spending Time With vs. Marriage Material?

JiggyLordJr

Kingfisher
Haven't posted anything relationship-related since the new rules went into effect. Figured now's a good time to do so.

How does one distinguish between a woman they like spending time with vs. a woman who's marriage material? If you looked at it as a venn diagram, I'm sure there'd be a lot of overlap between the two, but it's likely not 1:1. If a woman is good company (no attitude, friendly demeanor, can joke with, etc.) is she likely good marriage material? The Happy Gene comes to mind when describing this archetype. Thing is, I wouldn't want to be blindsided by a crazy chick who is deceptively pleasant. At the same time, I might be overthinking a simple green flag that could be grounds for family creation. You see my dilemma now.

Spending time with women who range from neutral (at-best) to unpleasant (at-worst) is... unpleasant. And a lot of them are hot, which kinda sucks. My experience with these type of women (and they're usually Western) is that 30 minutes into a meet I either want to blow my brains out or am busy thinking how to avoid future plans outside the bedroom.

On the flip side of this, some of the most fulfilling and wholesome relationships I've had were with girls I genuinely enjoyed spending time around. Is there a connection between the two?

Basically wondering if a nicer personality in women correlates to better potential marriage quality. What do you guys think?
 

Cortés

Woodpecker
Gold Member
I don't think it has to be an either or.

Marriage material depends on her morality. Where does she get it from? Instagram and Hollywood movies? Or from God and her parents?

A woman who sees life through a worldly lense will get her idea of right and wrong from modern culture. Family values, long term relationships, and loyalty probably won't be had.

A woman who learned from her parents and the Bible on how to live life would want to build healthy relationships and have a family of her own.

Obviously finding someone who you enjoy your time with depends alot more on the individual. Your hobbies, sense of humor, and some behaviors that really can't even be put into words.

Personally, Ive found that for me I can't stand women who are endlessly on social media and paying more attention to the lives of celebrities than to those around her. Even before I came to God, women like this felt like a drain on me, no matter how much of the happy Gene she had, nor comparability with me. Even if you find a woman like this in the church, it calls into question whether she values pointless gossip and the material more than God.

Also I feel that the woman's enthusiasm for the relationship and effort goes a long way into my satisfaction being with her. If she makes an effort to have good conversations and to make me happy, it shows that she isn't just thinking in terms of me me me.


I think with this perspective it's becomes easier to find a woman who hits both check marks. There are great women with religious values out there, and once you get to know a few of them over time, there's bound to be one who you want to be around

Like I said though, depends on the individual. A woman who is good marriage material is more likely to be more enjoyable to be around just because a woman worth marrying puts effort into the relationship and has a positive attitude
 

Athanasius

Pelican
If a woman is good company (no attitude, friendly demeanor, can joke with, etc.) is she likely good marriage material?

It's not an indicator one way or another. Some good women are fun to be around and some aren't. Some bad women are, some aren't. You do need some level of attraction but you definitely want someone you can relate to and just enjoy being around. I've been married for over 20 years and I can't imagine being married to a dull or silly woman for that long, no matter how pretty she is.

Marriage is a tradeoff. The romantic thrill is never what it was at the beginning, but if you and her do the right things year in and year out, the relationship deepens and there's a tenderness and a closeness that is far better than alleycatting and navigating that sea alone. And then there are the blessings of children as well. It's really is "the way of life." I see it more clearly now that I'm older.

If you're a Christian, only marry a Christian. I've seen way too many shipwrecks when this wasn't followed. Similarly, think about whether you really want to marry someone of another ethnicity. It's not sinful and it can work, but it can also create frictions of various kinds that aren't there when you come from a similar cultural background. It can make things hard on the kids, too.

A stable family is a good indicator, as is a clean house, levelheadedness, resourcefulness, a submissive attitude, and an ability to cook.
 
JiggyLordJr said:
Thing is, I wouldn't want to be blindsided by a crazy chick who is deceptively pleasant.
This has happened to me. You get hit with the honeymoon phase quick and hard because if you don't know how fucked they are, they can pretend to forget it too. Until you step on a trigger and suddenly it's like talking to a cat who hears vacuum cleaners around every corner.

Not really the place to expand on that point but it's definitely a valid concern I have when meeting someone new. I've definitely gotten better at screening and the content at reignitethefire helps too. Not letting the honeymoon phase blow up like a balloon, focusing on compatibility and boundaries over tingles and feelings, etc
 

questor70

Ostrich
I think even when you're in the puppy love stage that you'll pick up red flags. You just brush them under the rug under the assumption that love conquers all. You have to learn to really listen to those warning signs because they will eventually blow up on you like a landmine.

Also, one thing that's really key for me is I have to respect my partner. Attraction and respect are two different things. Everyone has their own criteria as to what is worthy of respect. Things that have been a problem for me are women who have had addiction problems, lacked drive/ambition, chronic insecurity/neediness, axes to grind with men, and had what I considered to be misplaced priorities in what they focus on.

I am far more in-tune with those red flags now that I'm red-pill aware and more tuned into the cancer of nth wave feminism. But really there are women who are a ticking time-bomb who can lull you into a false sense of security. For instance, one of my past girlfriends turned out to be (among other things) a raging SJW. But this was before the term was even coined. But now she even self-identifies as an SJW and I think to myself, boy did I dodge a bullet!
 

AntoniusofEfa

Woodpecker
There is a car that I would love to lease and have great fun with, and then there is the car that I would actually want to buy and hold long term.

I would lease an Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio, but I would never but one. A friend of mine who owned Alfas went almost bankrupt due to the after warranty repair bills.
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Moderator
Basically wondering if a nicer personality in women correlates to better potential marriage quality. What do you guys think?

100% yes - if you don't get along with her, how are you going to spend the rest of your life with her? Many underestimate how much time you're going to spend with your wife. That's a lot of time, and will become painful if you don't truly enjoy her presence.

JiggyLordJr said:
My experience with these type of women (and they're usually Western) is that 30 minutes into a meet I either want to blow my brains out or am busy thinking how to avoid future plans outside the bedroom.

I would implore you to stop looking for easy hookups and instead find a woman you genuinely like spending time with.

When you stop having sex, you're forced to spend more time with her outside the bedroom. On top of that, you're not getting all the feel-good hormones from having sex. This makes it so that you only date women that you're truly compatible with.

I know that in my past I stayed with sub-optimal women because I was getting fun, easy sex. The sex masked my true feelings about her. Even if I couldn't stand her personality, I'd stay with her because I liked the sex.

Also, women who are spreading their legs frequently are generally not the type of women you want to be settling down with. These damaged women have something going on that leads them to the promiscuous life. Correlation is real.
 

jarlo

Woodpecker
Resurrecting this thread...

How do you balance physical attractiveness and personality when choosing someone as a spouse regarding this thread?
That's not a terrible question, but when you're asking it, you should ask yourself whether you're still spending time watching porn, scrolling through Instagram, and watching TV on Netflix, and how much of your perceived desire/need for physical attractiveness is being driven by those vices.

Then, you should put in the work to quit all of those things, and ask your original question again. You'll probably still find that physical attractiveness matters. However, it probably won't matter to you so much that she meets some Hollywood/Instagram ideal. As long as she's thin, dresses well, and has a face you like looking at, she'll be attractive enough for you to consider her.

After quitting those vices, you'll also more easily be able to have a relationship with a woman without immediately going to sex, which will allow you to screen women rationally without attachment to sex. So, you'll instead be able to judge her on her personality, her willingness to be led, and her likely future quality as a mother. This in turn will increase the chance that you will have well adjusted kids and a long, happy marriage.
 
That's not a terrible question, but when you're asking it, you should ask yourself whether you're still spending time watching porn, scrolling through Instagram, and watching TV on Netflix, and how much of your perceived desire/need for physical attractiveness is being driven by those vices.

Then, you should put in the work to quit all of those things, and ask your original question again. You'll probably still find that physical attractiveness matters. However, it probably won't matter to you so much that she meets some Hollywood/Instagram ideal. As long as she's thin, dresses well, and has a face you like looking at, she'll be attractive enough for you to consider her.

After quitting those vices, you'll also more easily be able to have a relationship with a woman without immediately going to sex, which will allow you to screen women rationally without attachment to sex. So, you'll instead be able to judge her on her personality, her willingness to be led, and her likely future quality as a mother. This in turn will increase the chance that you will have well adjusted kids and a long, happy marriage.
I don’t watch porn at all. But, I do flip through Facebook and TV/Netflix seldomly.

The girl I’m seeing now is Orthodox, is traditionally-minded, and willing to be led. She would be an amazing mother.

It’s long distance and we have only FaceTimed thus far. But, we are meeting in person this month.

She is fit/thin, dresses well and even asks me what looks good on her, but I’m still unsure about facial attractiveness due to only seeing her via FaceTime and Facebook pictures. I find myself critiquing her face a bit and that worries me.

Maybe I’m think too much into this, but I find myself comparing her face and body to other women I’ve dated before and critiquing her in relation to them. But, this woman I’m trying to figure out how to vet her with honesty and a prior hierarchy that is godly and not worldly.

Long term I know looks fade and that her passion for fitness will be great. But, its like I’m looking for a 9/10 instead of being content with a 8/10 if that makes sense. I’m 25 and she’s 23 and we are both Orthodox.
 
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I don’t watch porn at all. But, I do flip through Facebook and TV/Netflix seldomly.

The girl I’m seeing now is Orthodox, is traditionally-minded, and willing to be led. She would be an amazing mother.

It’s long distance and we have only FaceTimed thus far. But, we are meeting in person this month.

She is fit/thin, dresses well and even asks me what looks good on her, but I’m still unsure about facial attractiveness due to only seeing her via FaceTime and Facebook pictures. I find myself critiquing her face a bit and that worries me.

Maybe I’m think too much into this, but I find myself comparing her face and body to other women I’ve dated before and critiquing her in relation to them. But, this woman I’m trying to figure out how to vet her with honesty and a prior hierarchy that is godly and not worldly.

Long term I know looks fade and that her passion for fitness will be great. But, its like I’m looking for a 9/10 instead of being content with a 8/10 if that makes sense. I’m 25 and she’s 23 and we are both Orthodox.

Looks fade, but hunger doesn't.

It is a hard balance to strike. Even an attractive woman at 25 looked even moreso at 21. It is incongruent to be ficky whilst expecting unwavering devotion.

Based on my observations, the most solid long term pairings have a successful arrangement of a competent man as the head, and the woman as a competent assistant manager.

Raising well adjusted children, whilst running the household to a very high standard, require the wife to run a tight ship when the husband is at work. Observe the potential wife's mother - a good metric to measure current, and future capabilities. If the future mother in law is hardworking, hospitible and house proud, it provides a solid foundation.
 

infowarrior1

Hummingbird
Looks fade, but hunger doesn't.

It is a hard balance to strike. Even an attractive woman at 25 looked even moreso at 21. It is incongruent to be ficky whilst expecting unwavering devotion.

Based on my observations, the most solid long term pairings have a successful arrangement of a competent man as the head, and the woman as a competent assistant manager.

Raising well adjusted children, whilst running the household to a very high standard, require the wife to run a tight ship when the husband is at work. Observe the potential wife's mother - a good metric to measure current, and future capabilities. If the future mother in law is hardworking, hospitible and house proud, it provides a solid foundation.

I think a lot of married Men according to anecdotes from commentators on Dalrock that I used to frequent see their wives with "Wife Goggles". That is especially if the wife is young and pretty when he first married her is how he still views her.

Which is why so many Men seem to remain attracted to his elderly wife. Because he still sees her as that Bride back in the day.

Especially if her character is good enough to not break that impression. If however she treats him badly that effect will fade.
 
I think a lot of married Men according to anecdotes from commentators on Dalrock that I used to frequent see their wives with "Wife Goggles". That is especially if the wife is young and pretty when he first married her is how he still views her.

Which is why so many Men seem to remain attracted to his elderly wife. Because he still sees her as that Bride back in the day.

Especially if her character is good enough to not break that impression. If however she treats him badly that effect will fade.

The practicalities of life tend to get lost in most discussions on the topic. The daily grind takes up most of a person's time. The immediate future mainly concerns bread and butter issues - reality over the potential. It explains the old adage "Idle hands are the Devil's playthings". Most people are simple, in that stability is the overwhelming preference. It would take a significant precursor to depart a relationship of several decades.

Marriage in itself is a practical arrangement that is codified in our culture. The base premise is identical to a contract agreement.

Most long-term couples that stick together in less ideal arrangements do so based on a lack of a pressing urgency to leave, or to avoid significant disincentives. Or they are cowards.
 

Based

Sparrow
I don’t watch porn at all. But, I do flip through Facebook and TV/Netflix seldomly.

The girl I’m seeing now is Orthodox, is traditionally-minded, and willing to be led. She would be an amazing mother.

It’s long distance and we have only FaceTimed thus far. But, we are meeting in person this month.

She is fit/thin, dresses well and even asks me what looks good on her, but I’m still unsure about facial attractiveness due to only seeing her via FaceTime and Facebook pictures. I find myself critiquing her face a bit and that worries me.

Maybe I’m think too much into this, but I find myself comparing her face and body to other women I’ve dated before and critiquing her in relation to them. But, this woman I’m trying to figure out how to vet her with honesty and a prior hierarchy that is godly and not worldly.

Long term I know looks fade and that her passion for fitness will be great. But, its like I’m looking for a 9/10 instead of being content with a 8/10 if that makes sense. I’m 25 and she’s 23 and we are both Orthodox.
I have to say it. You sound terrible, worse than the most superficial and vapid women the men here would tend to criticize. Reading what you have to say sounds like something out of a Kardashian reality TV show. If she really is a decent Orthodox woman who will be a faithful wife and amazing mother, then get over this nonsense and thank your lucky stars instead of whining like a shallow hypergamous harlot. Provided she is a decent woman, if you cannot love and cherish her for who she is because her face is not quite pretty enough for you then please do not waste her time because it seems your lack of appreciation will hurt her down the line.
 

Augustus_Principe

Woodpecker
I have to say it. You sound terrible, worse than the most superficial and vapid women the men here would tend to criticize. Reading what you have to say sounds like something out of a Kardashian reality TV show. If she really is a decent Orthodox woman who will be a faithful wife and amazing mother, then get over this nonsense and thank your lucky stars instead of whining like a shallow hypergamous harlot. Provided she is a decent woman, if you cannot love and cherish her for who she is because her face is not quite pretty enough for you then please do not waste her time because it seems your lack of appreciation will hurt her down the line.

While this may come off as harsh, Based has a point. If you're still at the point where you're nitpicking an 8/10 because of some perceived imperfection or doesn't fit your beauty standard, perhaps you shouldn't waste this young lady's time. There are plenty of men who are more than willing to court her, regardless of what superficial imperfections you see in her.

You still need more time to pray and meditate about the more important things in life. Heck, perhaps you just dont like this girls look. If that's how you feel, that's fine. We all have our types. But again, best to just end this now and move on.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
I am going through this somewhat.

I have a quality woman, attractive, good manners, ready for a family. There are some serious drawbacks.

One of which is I don't feel we hit it off that well. The conversations are somewhat basic. I remember with an ex I could spend a whole weekend and the time just flew, it didn't matter what we did and it was always comfortable and interesting. She wasn't a moral woman, or particularly honest... but I think she sorted herself out later on down the road, but who knows.

Conversation and getting along are a big deal. Or simply the desire or comfort in being in that other person's presence all the time.

I find myself wanting a break after a couple of days. To me this makes me feel like I should be exiting. But in other ways, I feel like a fool even considering letting her go. Then I think back to the slightly crazy girl who I had great chemistry with and time flew with, and it's difficult knowing that is out there.
 

holgerdanske

Sparrow
I've been around the block a few times, so let me cut through the chase and help you out. This is actually very simple. Spend a nice evening together and get her relaxed and comfortable. Then look he straight in the eyes and ask her this simple question: "How do you feel about marriage and about having children?"

Don't say anything for the next 5 minutes - not a word. Let her have the floor. Trust me me mate, after that you will know EXACTLY if she his marriage material or not. If there are any lingering doubts or if your spidey sense tells you that something's off then move on to the next one until you find that 'one' who God sent you to share your lives together.

Also I disagree with some of the other posters here. Physical beauty is an asset that we as men are genetically conditioned to appreciate and there's nothing wrong with that. It reflects genetic traits we are attracted to and if it wasn't the case God would not have designed us that way. Don't deny yourself beauty if that is what you cherish. At the same time it would be a mistake trying to compare your future wife to impossible standards as the one propagated by the fashion and p0rn industry. Just follow you gut instincts and you'll be fine.

Have you ever met a woman who wasn't that great looking but had that 'je ne sais quoi' - that certain something that really triggered your attraction? There's nothing more boring than perfection IMO, so go after the type of woman you feel will offer you fulfillment and happiness as opposed to just vapid sex and short term attraction.
 
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Looks fade, but hunger doesn't.

It is a hard balance to strike. Even an attractive woman at 25 looked even moreso at 21. It is incongruent to be ficky whilst expecting unwavering devotion.

Based on my observations, the most solid long term pairings have a successful arrangement of a competent man as the head, and the woman as a competent assistant manager.

Raising well adjusted children, whilst running the household to a very high standard, require the wife to run a tight ship when the husband is at work. Observe the potential wife's mother - a good metric to measure current, and future capabilities. If the future mother in law is hardworking, hospitible and house proud, it provides a solid foundation.
I agree that looks fade. It’s just hard to accept that at my age of 25, even though it’s true.

Also, she fits what you say regarding her wanting to be a homemaker. This is a rare pro and why I initially asked this question because I know she is marriage material in the realm you mentioned.
 
I have to say it. You sound terrible, worse than the most superficial and vapid women the men here would tend to criticize. Reading what you have to say sounds like something out of a Kardashian reality TV show. If she really is a decent Orthodox woman who will be a faithful wife and amazing mother, then get over this nonsense and thank your lucky stars instead of whining like a shallow hypergamous harlot. Provided she is a decent woman, if you cannot love and cherish her for who she is because her face is not quite pretty enough for you then please do not waste her time because it seems your lack of appreciation will hurt her down the line.
I’m thankful that you said this. It helped bring things into perspective a bit. I’m still praying and meditating on what is God’s will in this relationship and I tend to get OCD on things from time to time.
 
While this may come off as harsh, Based has a point. If you're still at the point where you're nitpicking an 8/10 because of some perceived imperfection or doesn't fit your beauty standard, perhaps you shouldn't waste this young lady's time. There are plenty of men who are more than willing to court her, regardless of what superficial imperfections you see in her.

You still need more time to pray and meditate about the more important things in life. Heck, perhaps you just dont like this girls look. If that's how you feel, that's fine. We all have our types. But again, best to just end this now and move on.
I think you may be right. I do need more time to pray and meditate on what is the proper balance of virtue and physical attraction and ultimately what I want long-term. I think I’m being short-sighted and narrowly focusing on the physical more than the eternal qualities of her soul. I do have a type... depending on what you mean specifically when you say that... but that type usually didn’t work out too well in the past. Plus... we have only talked/met on FaceTime thus far... so I have limited data.

what would you say is the proper hierarchy of imporance when assessing someone for marriage specifically?
 
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