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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ICXC" data-source="post: 1338002" data-attributes="member: 18463">Of course looks matter to her now - as does everything else. But in nature and historically looks are irrelevant. I mean you could make the claim that only the 'most' 'well-built' 'alpha' 'chad' got the girl and looks have always mattered, but society has always played gatekeeper while the 'alpha's' all fight in wars and die, and the betas all wind up bedding the hotties, and the vicious cycle continues. I can only think of a handful of 'civilizations' - if you want to call them that, which practiced out right eugenics and attempted to breed the strongest and fittest they could. By and large civilizations haven't really done this. You brought up harems, so yeah the 'top dog' or the 'warlord' would spread his genes all over, but generally speaking I think looks are by and large not a requirement for the woman historically and otherwise.Were kind of talking at two different wavelengths here. I probably didn't clarify everything as well as I could of. I think society is sinful, I think civilizations (if not focused on God directly and explicitly) result in not just sinful people, but entire generations and generations of prescript rules, with the vast majority of these gatekeeping rules built on sin; i.e. harems are example like you brought up. It's not to say don't have rules, but any rules a society has need to have God explicitly acknowledged, and I mean explicitly, like as obvious as it can possibly be, otherwise you have people essentially acting like savages and being herded and steered every which way based on every emotional fixation possible. Society is structured to reduce sin ok, this goes for any 'government' - they are meant to reduce harm or extract resources of some kind, you could say the extraction process is sinful, but generally speaking 'government's' and laws are built around the prime mover of the whole thing - sex. And so the average person will think that sounds like kind of dumb or bizarre theory, but I can't seem to find any other reason for society over lording itself. Yes, people say oligarchs want to be in charge and rich want to stay rich etc, nothing new under the sun right, but at the end of the day humans were made to bond and be with other like minded people, and so societies are by and large demonstrations of people (men and women) placating to the female gender. I didn't explain it all very well ok, sue me, but psychologically if 'in nature' by themselves and isolated women go insane ok, men don't, as far as I can tell. The point here being that women don't just 'want' everything but they psychologically 'need' everything, whereas men don't need anything.Ask what a man's list of demands looks like for a girl: 1) she's hot, 2) she's devoted/caring/'loyal' 3) and has common sense...maybe not that last one, but it's not much ok, men want the good genes, women want literally everything because their existential reality demands it. And it should be noted that I'm referring to men and women in a state of sin, being 'in nature' you are in a state of sin because you a have made yourself outside of divine law - and the greater point I was trying to articulate, which is complicated, is that governments are man made, the gatekeepers are man made, they aren't divine laws or decrees - thus the man and women in that society (while under an illusion of control) are still 'in nature' and in a state of sin. Anyways it's complicated discussion, at the end of the day I give both men and women the benefit of the doubt because there are in insane amount of external factors pushing and pulling them in directions which they have no clue they are being pulled in. Only those who publicly and intentionally put themselves under divine law (Catholic Church) are able to navigate society more easily, and while that's not a guarantee, it still helps, alot.</blockquote>

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