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<blockquote data-quote="Jaszczurka" data-source="post: 1338338" data-attributes="member: 17110"><p>I don't want to get into the religious/philosophy points you made (that would get rather lengthly to say the least) but let's address desires.</p><p></p><p>As I said, up until recently, they were moot. Women in most homes had arranged marriages and in much of the world, that's still the case. As an outsider, I expect it works like this: The father, mother, and perhaps extended family reviews the available suiters for a young woman and looks matter less because they aren't ****ing the guy, right? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> Provided he appears otherwise healthy, they're looking at more altruistic and pragmatic concerns: Honesty, reliability, religious devotion and of course, wealth. The daughter might be able to object if she has sufficiently strong reasons to do so, but even she might also be more pragmatic as women follow the group lead.</p><p></p><p>I was setting up subtitles for my father-in-law for Fiddler on the Roof, here's one of the funniest scenes on the matter:</p><p>[MEDIA=youtube]jVGNdB6iEeA[/MEDIA]</p><p></p><p>In the end, most reasonable women can fall in love with most any man in such a situation and here's why: If she married an alpha and he wasn't a perfect guy, she'd cut him a lot of slack. She loves her children even if they aren't perfect. A reasonable person doesn't need a perfect mate. Most of us are worthy of love and respect from our mates. The arranged marriage required women to treat nearly all the men they married as alphas, as "kings" in the castles, and that isn't a bad thing if those men deserved that respect.</p><p></p><p>So here's my insight: In modern dating, she doesn't have this group to force her to think pragmatically. On the contrary, her herd instinct is an unreasonable one: the mass media has "wholesome" family entertainment such as Disney with princesses going to sleep and waking up to a perfect man. Most families encourage their daughters to get educated and put off getting married and starting a family. The dating paradigm is what is known as overchoice: If there's a pool of a thousand men living near her, why shouldn't she demand he be perfect? And as part of that perfection, why shouldn't she also demand that she have little to offer him BESIDES the only bait a woman has in a traditional approach? Sexual attractiveness?</p><p></p><p>Story about a woman relative of mine: She was complaining that all men thought about online was "sex sex sex". So she put in her online ad: "If sex is all you want, don't contact me!" Well, since her bio had the charm of a metermaid, and she had a pretty photo, what possible reason why men would contact her OTHER than sex? It's like telling a dog: "No treats for you until you perform tricks for reasons other than tricks!" </p><p></p><p>Ironies abound that women want (and need) everything today because, ironically, society caters to them. The simplest way to sum it up is to say they're spoiled but another would be that they're weaker. That rather than making women more equal to men, they've made them incredibly helpless. </p><p></p><p>When my wife gave birth, she was terrified. My grandmother would have laughed her *** off. Even though my wife is a country girl compared to "city girls", she's emotionally weaker than women a century ago. Women worked less in the formal workplace than men did, but most working class women HAD to work not for "fun" and a "career" but out of necessity. But since women of means considered it status to NOT work, wages were higher and therefore, men's wages were higher. Women in the past "worked" for the family: Their income was meant to help the family, they mended clothes to save money, they cooked at home to save money, etc. An "industrious" wife was the norm. </p><p></p><p>So this brings us to what men "want". Men don't "need" anything from women because for generations, modern women have offered little. They don't mend clothes, many can't cook, and their income is either for independence or for stuff they want such as private schools for the kids, fancier homes, etc. But it's not to make HIS life any easier. On the contrary, career women usually have more baggage in the form of they don't have time to take care of their own kids so they expect the man to "help out" with diapers, etc.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jaszczurka, post: 1338338, member: 17110"] I don't want to get into the religious/philosophy points you made (that would get rather lengthly to say the least) but let's address desires. As I said, up until recently, they were moot. Women in most homes had arranged marriages and in much of the world, that's still the case. As an outsider, I expect it works like this: The father, mother, and perhaps extended family reviews the available suiters for a young woman and looks matter less because they aren't ****ing the guy, right? :-) Provided he appears otherwise healthy, they're looking at more altruistic and pragmatic concerns: Honesty, reliability, religious devotion and of course, wealth. The daughter might be able to object if she has sufficiently strong reasons to do so, but even she might also be more pragmatic as women follow the group lead. I was setting up subtitles for my father-in-law for Fiddler on the Roof, here's one of the funniest scenes on the matter: [MEDIA=youtube]jVGNdB6iEeA[/MEDIA] In the end, most reasonable women can fall in love with most any man in such a situation and here's why: If she married an alpha and he wasn't a perfect guy, she'd cut him a lot of slack. She loves her children even if they aren't perfect. A reasonable person doesn't need a perfect mate. Most of us are worthy of love and respect from our mates. The arranged marriage required women to treat nearly all the men they married as alphas, as "kings" in the castles, and that isn't a bad thing if those men deserved that respect. So here's my insight: In modern dating, she doesn't have this group to force her to think pragmatically. On the contrary, her herd instinct is an unreasonable one: the mass media has "wholesome" family entertainment such as Disney with princesses going to sleep and waking up to a perfect man. Most families encourage their daughters to get educated and put off getting married and starting a family. The dating paradigm is what is known as overchoice: If there's a pool of a thousand men living near her, why shouldn't she demand he be perfect? And as part of that perfection, why shouldn't she also demand that she have little to offer him BESIDES the only bait a woman has in a traditional approach? Sexual attractiveness? Story about a woman relative of mine: She was complaining that all men thought about online was "sex sex sex". So she put in her online ad: "If sex is all you want, don't contact me!" Well, since her bio had the charm of a metermaid, and she had a pretty photo, what possible reason why men would contact her OTHER than sex? It's like telling a dog: "No treats for you until you perform tricks for reasons other than tricks!" Ironies abound that women want (and need) everything today because, ironically, society caters to them. The simplest way to sum it up is to say they're spoiled but another would be that they're weaker. That rather than making women more equal to men, they've made them incredibly helpless. When my wife gave birth, she was terrified. My grandmother would have laughed her *** off. Even though my wife is a country girl compared to "city girls", she's emotionally weaker than women a century ago. Women worked less in the formal workplace than men did, but most working class women HAD to work not for "fun" and a "career" but out of necessity. But since women of means considered it status to NOT work, wages were higher and therefore, men's wages were higher. Women in the past "worked" for the family: Their income was meant to help the family, they mended clothes to save money, they cooked at home to save money, etc. An "industrious" wife was the norm. So this brings us to what men "want". Men don't "need" anything from women because for generations, modern women have offered little. They don't mend clothes, many can't cook, and their income is either for independence or for stuff they want such as private schools for the kids, fancier homes, etc. But it's not to make HIS life any easier. On the contrary, career women usually have more baggage in the form of they don't have time to take care of their own kids so they expect the man to "help out" with diapers, etc. [/QUOTE]
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