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<blockquote data-quote="MichaelWitcoff" data-source="post: 1349571" data-attributes="member: 16038">I once dated a woman who had some doctor &quot;boyfriend&quot; in L.A paying her rent every month. At the time I was a pothead, and often an unemployed one. She called me once from his house asking me to be her boyfriend instead (I declined). I no longer do the secular dating thing, but it remains true that a charismatic, fun personality will beat a guy who's &quot;perfect on paper&quot; - but boring - 100 times out of 100 (unless she's a gold-digger, in which case she'll divorce you and take the money she was after the whole time anyway). In an ideal world &quot;game&quot; wouldn't matter or be relevant, but if you choose to date - which is a CHOICE - then you'll have to learn how to be interpersonally effective if you're trying to date in the modern Western world. I have friends from the Middle East who tell me what &quot;dating&quot; and marriage are like out there, and it's a completely different thing in the small religious communities from what those are here in America. Fathers basically &quot;sell&quot; their daughters by offering potential husbands a large dowry, and many people are married by their mid-teens. Ironically, arranged marriages tend to end up just as happy - or even happier - than free-choice &quot;love&quot; marriages. Either way, it sounds like some guys here want a traditional relationship but they're taking that approach with secular women who want nothing more than &quot;excitement.&quot; And you cannot have a traditional religious-style relationship with a secular woman.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MichaelWitcoff, post: 1349571, member: 16038"] I once dated a woman who had some doctor "boyfriend" in L.A paying her rent every month. At the time I was a pothead, and often an unemployed one. She called me once from his house asking me to be her boyfriend instead (I declined). I no longer do the secular dating thing, but it remains true that a charismatic, fun personality will beat a guy who's "perfect on paper" - but boring - 100 times out of 100 (unless she's a gold-digger, in which case she'll divorce you and take the money she was after the whole time anyway). In an ideal world "game" wouldn't matter or be relevant, but if you choose to date - which is a CHOICE - then you'll have to learn how to be interpersonally effective if you're trying to date in the modern Western world. I have friends from the Middle East who tell me what "dating" and marriage are like out there, and it's a completely different thing in the small religious communities from what those are here in America. Fathers basically "sell" their daughters by offering potential husbands a large dowry, and many people are married by their mid-teens. Ironically, arranged marriages tend to end up just as happy - or even happier - than free-choice "love" marriages. Either way, it sounds like some guys here want a traditional relationship but they're taking that approach with secular women who want nothing more than "excitement." And you cannot have a traditional religious-style relationship with a secular woman. [/QUOTE]

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