Women's opinion on aggressive male flirting & harassment

What is your view on men who step over the line with flirting?

  • I am scared or angry at them and want them harshly punished by society

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • I am annoyed by them but can handle them myself

    Votes: 5 45.5%
  • I don't mind if a guy crosses the line once and I can clearly set boundaries

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • I enjoy the interaction

    Votes: 2 18.2%
  • I haven't experienced this myself

    Votes: 2 18.2%
  • Other (explain in comments)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    11

Max Roscoe

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
The headline and biggest news today is that NY Governor Andrew Cuomo is "unfit for office" because he aggressively flirted with staff.
My personal view is that all politicians are morally compromised and I don't see why this flaw makes him any worse than any other thief, liar, or scoundrel in public office. I have been for a long time perplexed by the bizarre pseudo-puritanical view on sexuality in public leaders. But I am not a woman.

Of course, it's not a problem at all if one is:

A serial divorcee (ex: Newt Gingrich)

A fornicator (ex: Katie Hill)

Living in sin (ex: Alexandria Ocasio Cortez)

A homosexual (many examples)

A transsexual (Caitlin Jenner)

And these are only sexual immoralities. Congresscritters can have any number of other *personal* immoralities without criticism.

And yet, if a single man aggressively flirts with women, he is deemed not only socially irredeemable but *UNFIT FOR WORK* which I find the most bizarre claim of all. What is it, exactly that prevents a man from being both an effective executive, and also a pervert?

We live in a bizarre society that glorifies sexuality, and then beats up men when they respond to it in predictable ways.

There is an extremely bizarre report issued on Andrew Cuomo's dating habits, and I'll just say that while women and men often perceive things differently, if the accusations are to be believed, then the guy could be rightfully called a pervert.


There is a separate question of how we handle perverts, and how we teach men what the line is, but I'm curious how women really view men that push these interactions. I asked an elderly black woman that I volunteer with this question at a Christmas party, at the height of the MeToo movement and she laughed and told me how she had to take off her heels and swing them at guys before. She didn't seem to like the advances of these men, but she didn't seem all bent out of shape about it either, and knew how to quickly put the guy back in his place.

But what do (non-SJW) women today feel about aggressive flirting or borderline perverts?
 

Max Roscoe

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
Good question. If you look at the Cuomo accusations, they include a lot of personal questions "Are you single? Married? Have you ever cheated on your husband?" (he is clearly a gross and disturbed guy, but hey, they exist) up to "a hug where he squeezed my butt"

Since a hand could accidentally graze a woman's body, especially if drinking at a party, I would give the benefit of the doubt for a single instance... So I would consider anything up to a single "groping" incident (ie it only happened once) to be the most serious incident when answering the question.

Anything more than that and it becomes physically attacking / assaulting someone and committing a crime.

Anything less than that, and, for the sake of this discussion we will consider that the man believed, either legitimately or not, that his actions were being received positively or that the action wasn't intentional.
 

Gimlet

Kingfisher
I am talking to you as a brother, and not to fight: Calling that "aggressively" flirting is like calling a male tranny "she". We need to resist their language when it is flat out wrong. They are convincing us to lie to ourselves to further their agenda. Cuomo, it's bad game. And because he has/had power at the time, they shrugged it off. When the zeitgeist tide turned, Cuomo was too aggressive. (Solid recent example: grown women retired to a rich, famous & very married man's hotel room to do drugs with him. Decades later, it was assault. Yes that is Cosby).
 

TexasJenn

Woodpecker
Woman
I chose "annoyed but can handle myself," but I don't think you understand just how threatening and rattling sexual harassment in the workplace can be. Luckily, I'm now at a point where I work with professional, upstanding people and don't have to deal with these problems. But when I first started working as a teenager in service jobs to save up for college, I was grabbed and groped and otherwise sexually harassed in the workplace, and the men and boys who did this were patted on the back by sleazy male supervisors. Every woman I know personally has dealt with something like this, up to and including outright propositions and threats. As a young woman, even if you can find your voice and stand up for yourself, you're often dismissed by good old boys who want to keep the "fun" going. And if you're in a small town with limited employment options as I was, it's not so easy to just quit and find another job working with another group of sleazeballs.

And it's not just in the workplace, either. As a struggling college student living in a dump in the hood, my dilapidated former crack house was bought by a white developer. He showed up at my house, a sleazy snake in a fancy suit, saying that with his acquisition my rent was about to go up several-fold - but if I "worked out a deal with him," it would be free. I told him send the new lease, slammed the door in his face, and started looking for another place. What a creep.

I looked at all the Cuomo stories, and he strikes me as pure sleaze. I hope he pays for his abuses. Many, many, many more men do the same and get away with it - but many women are completely fed up with this sickening abuse and exploitation.
 
I propose simple solutions.

De facto sex segregation. If she is not your wife you have no rights of this manner and vice versa. Neither are women to be treated like de facto prostitutes.

For this reason I would actually would like official sex segregation in workplaces.

Male spaces ought to be Male spaces no matter how much women would want to barge in and vice versa, they are sacred and the sanctity of said holy places for either Men or Women mustn't be violated.

Neither consensual fornication nor behavior of this manner should be tolerated.

Chastity is confining eroticism to wedlock and shielding eroticism from distorting outside influences which can and do turn it into lust(ie porn). Just like how drugs distort our normally healthy appetites.
 
Last edited:

Ah_Tibor

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox
But when I first started working as a teenager in service jobs to save up for college, I was grabbed and groped and otherwise sexually harassed in the workplace, and the men and boys who did this were patted on the back by sleazy male supervisors. Every woman I know personally has dealt with something like this, up to and including outright propositions and threats. As a young woman, even if you can find your voice and stand up for yourself, you're often dismissed by good old boys who want to keep the "fun" going. And if you're in a small town with limited employment options as I was, it's not so easy to just quit and find another job working with another group of sleazeballs.

I remember my "first" job in a deli was kind of like that. I'm fairly average looking (not ugly but I'm not "pretty"), and guys never really got into me much, tbh, but I got a lot of attention from older guys, both customers and coworkers. A 69 year old cook just decided to plant one on me one day. I went out with a guy in his 20s because he was the first guy who ever asked me out, and it was really dumb and I regret it.

I still remember there was a Bulgarian girl who worked on the line, and people often got us confused for some reason. One day her husband came in with their baby daughter to eat and I remember watching them all together while I cleaned tables and thinking *that's* where I wanted to be 10 years out.
 

Kitty Tantrum

Woodpecker
Woman
Funny thing, I look at the Cuomo scandal and assume he paid or otherwise motivated these accusers to act their part out, because this is a much more graceful way to GTF(rog)O than to stick around until the truth about all those nursing home deaths makes its way into the awareness of the general public.

I don't really care if men flirt with me aggressively because there is no situation I can't walk away from and nobody I can't put in their place when it is truly needed. Laugh it off, thanks but no thanks, tip of the hat, and I'm on my way.
 

Ah_Tibor

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox
Funny thing, I look at the Cuomo scandal and assume he paid or otherwise motivated these accusers to act their part out, because this is a much more graceful way to GTF(rog)O than to stick around until the truth about all those nursing home deaths makes its way into the awareness of the general public.

I think Cuomo represents the kind of old-school mafia types who want to live it up without repercussions, vs. the idealistic true believers or shape-shifters or... whatever.

They'll make him a scapegoat to distract everyone. They all suck.
 

JohnQThomas

Woodpecker
Good question. If you look at the Cuomo accusations, they include a lot of personal questions "Are you single? Married? Have you ever cheated on your husband?" (he is clearly a gross and disturbed guy, but hey, they exist) up to "a hug where he squeezed my butt"

Since a hand could accidentally graze a woman's body, especially if drinking at a party, I would give the benefit of the doubt for a single instance... So I would consider anything up to a single "groping" incident (ie it only happened once) to be the most serious incident when answering the question.

Anything more than that and it becomes physically attacking / assaulting someone and committing a crime.

Anything less than that, and, for the sake of this discussion we will consider that the man believed, either legitimately or not, that his actions were being received positively or that the action wasn't intentional.
Come on. An “innocent” hug, an “accidental” butt squeeze or grope, questions about marital status and whether a woman has ever cheated on her husband? Those are SEDUCTION tactics—like we (okay, many of us) used to use when trying to lay the groundwork for fornication. (Or adultery, if she was married.) The guy who does any of those things probably DOES mean something by it. In the workplace, nothing more intimate than a handshake or maybe a pat on the back has any legitimate place. There is no valid reason for anyone to “escalate the kino” or try to break down psychological boundaries with suggestive questions.
Ladies, if a man does any of the above or anything else that seems improper, let him know in no uncertain terms that you’re not cool with it.
If he tries again, he’s out of line.
 

JohnQThomas

Woodpecker
I propose simple solutions.

De facto sex segregation. If she is not your wife you have no rights of this manner and vice versa. Neither are women to be treated like de facto prostitutes.

For this reason I would actually would like official sex segregation in workplaces.

Male spaces ought to be Male spaces no matter how much women would want to barge in and vice versa, they are sacred and the sanctity of said holy places for either Men or Women mustn't be violated.

Neither consensual fornication nor behavior of this manner should be tolerated.

Chastity is confining eroticism to wedlock and shielding eroticism from distorting outside influences which can and do turn it into lust(ie porn). Just like how drugs distort our normally healthy appetites.
Or how about at least a “hands off” (no touching) policy in the workplace? Some people already follow such guidelines for religious reasons. Couldn’t we all live with something like that?
 
Or how about at least a “hands off” (no touching) policy in the workplace? Some people already follow such guidelines for religious reasons. Couldn’t we all live with something like that?
Because all-male spaces are more efficient in action. There is a unique comraderie and energy that comes from said situations.

Military squads functioned most smoothly as male-only units:

Why do you think only Males 20 years and up were drafted into the Army in the Book of Numbers?
 
Last edited:

stugatz

Pelican
This is a question for the women, but I do work in a service industry environment with a lot of inappropriate flirting. I usually don’t get annoyed if I hear playful flirtatious comments.

“Hey Manuel can I ask you a favor?”

“No, you can’t have my phone number.”

Stuff like that I hear from the other line cooks and I think it’s harmless (i.e. it’s low level enough where the person on the receiving end can put a stop to it).

None of this usually involves me, I indirectly flirt and any overt comments like that coming out of me would just sound cringy.

Plus I’m usually too busy mandolining buckets of onion straws to really care about dating servers...
 
All-female spaces are more efficient as well because it forces the ladies to compete and try to show each other up with their work instead of 97% competing for male attention while 3% pick up all the slack. :p

I wish :) . Although I am quite sure there is a lot of drama too:
Over in one corner sat Alice, a strong-minded 27-year-old who always said what she thought, regardless of how much it might hurt someone else. In the other corner was Sarah, a thirtysomething high-flier who would stand up for herself momentarily - then burst into tears and run for the ladies.

Their simmering fight lasted hours, egged on by spectators taking sides and fuelling the anger. Sometimes other girls would join in, either heckling aggressively or huddling defensively in the toilets. It might sound like a scene from a tawdry reality show such as Big Brother, but the truth is a little more prosaic: it was just a normal morning in my office.

The venomous women were supposedly the talented employees I had headhunted to achieve my utopian dream - a female- only company with happy, harmonious workers benefiting from an absence of men.

It was an idealistic vision swiftly shattered by the nightmare reality: constant bitchiness, surging hormones, unchecked emotion, attention-seeking and fashion rivalry so fierce it tore my staff apart.

When I read the other day that Sienna Miller had said there was no such thing as 'the Sisterhood', I knew what she meant.

I can understand why people want to believe that women look out for each other - because with men in power at work and in politics, it makes sense for us to stick together.

In fact, there was a time when I believed in the Sisterhood - but that was before women at war led to my emotional and financial ruin.

Five years ago, I was working as a TV executive producer making shows for top channels such as MTV, and based in Los Angeles. It sounds like a dream job and it could have been - if I'd been male.

Working in TV is notoriously difficult for women. There is a powerful old boys' network, robust glass ceiling and the majority of bosses are misogynistic males.

Gradually, what had started out as a daydream - wouldn't it be great if there were no men where I worked? - turned into an exciting concept. I decided to create the first all-female production company where smart, intelligent, career-orientated women could work harmoniously, free from the bravado of the opposite sex.

In hindsight, I should have learned the lessons of my past - at my mixed secondary school I was bullied by a gang of nasty, name-calling girls, so I knew only too well how nasty groups of women could become.


I suppose they will have to learn from nunneries how to do it properly.
 
Last edited:

Kitty Tantrum

Woodpecker
Woman
I wish :) . Although I am quite sure there is a lot of drama too:

I suppose they will have to learn from nunneries how to do it properly.
Ahh, well, I suppose another important thing is that they need to be given appropriate work. I've seen groups of women work and get on fine... but not in offices, and not whole business where it's all women. Just segregated spaces. And they have to all have the same job, doing the same thing, and it has to be physical work. Sewing, assembly, processing, etc. Lightweight manual labor. Women's work.

As far as female-run/all female COMPANIES... there's a chocolate company out of Seattle that brags about being women-owned... I thought that surely CHOCOLATE would be something a bunch of women could get right. The wrappers are pretty but the chocolate is garbage. As far as I'm concerned, that's the litmus test for women-run companies, and women failed.
 

Elipe

Pelican
As far as female-run/all female COMPANIES... there's a chocolate company out of Seattle that brags about being women-owned... I thought that surely CHOCOLATE would be something a bunch of women could get right. The wrappers are pretty but the chocolate is garbage. As far as I'm concerned, that's the litmus test for women-run companies, and women failed.
I wonder if that has more to do with them being left-leaning bleeding heart types than being women and trying to "ethically" source their chocolate, and if they try to go lighter on the sugar/HFCS. It probably affects the final mixture in the end product. Don't learn how the chocolate sausage is made. I'm just not sure how being women would affect the chocolate manufacturing process in any way other than just not following the (shady) industrial standard for ethical reasons. I mean, it's not like making chocolate is a secret trade that only Hershey, Nesquik, etc. know about.
 

TexasJenn

Woodpecker
Woman
I work in management in a professional setting with women and men at all levels. We win major awards, get the highest ratings for our fiscal management, get raises every year, have been rock solid through the chaos of the past year and a half. We take our work and our calling very seriously. I haven't seen any of this nonsense going on among my colleagues, generally a high caliber of people.
 
Top