Would you get married, and would you have kids?

[IvanDrago]

Team Lunatic member n° 4 presenting,where are the others?

Can I ask what your reasoning is?

 

[jay_penetratem]

I have a kid with my current girlfriend and quite frankly its a mistake I curse myself daily over. I love my child just not the bitch he came out of. The fact I can no longer escape easily and she effectively has me by the balls until hes 18. I'm now in a zombie relationship to make sure I raise him to be a better man than me. Marriage is totally off the cards however for now. Moral of the story is don't have kids guys! Unless you want to have her in your life in some form for the next 20 years.

 

[iknowexactly]

It would be good if we could get some more 50 + guys to tune in and tell us how there feelings towards the subject have changed over the years; I ...

I'm 55+, some things that I couldn't can't envision until at least 40:

I started to feel acutely how my idea of la dolce vita really sort of ends at the latest at 67-70? when sex becomes infrequent and not as pleasurable, athletics becomes more limited, etc. You'll notice there's very few posters here over 60. It's because they ( and soon me) don't have the same concerns as young men.

It's not a defect, as you learn and your body changes, it only natural your concerns change. You can stuff yourself with steroids etc, but telomeres deteriorate, immortality is a concern of later generations.

After that, I will consider my self a wise man, not a hedonist, and have much different concerns.

If one accepts this time frame, you accept that in your late 50s you only have about 3500 more days to really live.

Think how fast that goes by, how such a time press makes pettiness more distasteful.

Then that's it. No more "life." Life will be more like meditation and teaching.

That heightened sense of mortality caused me feel about and look at things differently:

1) There is a limited range of personalities in sane, functioning people--Each new person you meet is more and more like a person you've known previously, therefore meeting new people becomes less interesting. Because you have less time, the overhead of basic introductions, scheduling initial trust-building time, and screening for unreliable people becomes less tolerable.

The productivity of collaborating with known reliable people--including women--becomes much more important.

2) My sex drive changed and became less "athletic," one might say. Where before a particular pneumatically perfect cheerleader body under control of a dimwitted, petty mind was very appealing, now it is much less so-- likable but not worth a lot of work and time. I know I don't want the garish, expensive luxury of a Corvette, so I don't have desire to test drive one any more.

You become more aware and appreciative of subtle things, like the way a particular woman might sing while she cooks for you. The "amazing" things such as particular style/facets of beauty become less blinding as your sex drive changes. See #3.

3) As you become wiser about people, you start to sense more accurately how much a person actually cares about you, and as Janka mentioned, you value that they know you. Fucking a super-hot girl who is very narcissistic and is essentially using you for an ego-boost or dildo becomes surprisingly like playing a sport one doesn't like much. She's not really even there. The pure sensation is not as satisfying without emotional intimacy.

4) I don't feel like I have nights to waste anymore, and being in a bar or trying to organize meetings with new (usually unreliable) women leads to wasted nights sleeping alone. I don't like sleeping alone or being a full-time social engineer trying to juggle a harem (see #5). I've noticed this is in marked contrast to some players here who dislike sleeping with a woman. Everyone has different attachment circuitry, I'm not judging.

5) As I become more socially skilled and better learn to sense the needs of others more, I realize how the women I meet ( who aren't hardened sluts) crave stability for their biological role of having children.

I have had to make the existential decision as to whether I want to keep running through women (if they're not hardened sluts) letting them hope might stay with them. You have to be pretty cold knowing what's going to happen and disappointing them again and again. I don't want to wear a mask.

Also, of course it gets harder and harder to get 7+ girls, even in the third world, as you near 60, so when one likes you it becomes more and more preferable to hang on to her instead of going through the whole tedious routine of looking for a another girl 30 years younger than yourself.

6) Traveling and jet lag become more tiring and less appealing, and as I've only recently noticed, I think adapting to new climates also has. I was exhausted for at least 6 weeks after my recent move to the Philippines. I think it was a combination of culture shock at widespread poverty, high humidity, and more/different bacteria in the environment.

7) Like mentioned before, the more places you've been, the the more each new place is similar to a previous one. Only so many environments can support human life. So I've started to want to find a favorable place and let myself feel comfortable there. "Settle down" are dirty words to adventurous young men, there are some places I really like and want to be there as much as I can in my limited time left.

8) Politics has become less and less interesting to me. Large cultural changes like the advent of Feminism, Communism, and civil rights take multiple decades to happen. More like half-centuries, really. I think the time from the last race-hate lynching in the USA to when Black people could fairly easily vote was about 50 years.

So I won't be around to see any real significant change in these areas. Actually , I HOPE I won't be around to see sudden changes, because it seems most positive change is incremental. It's easy to destroy something, hard to build. I don't think I would have wanted to live in Russia after the Bolshevik Revolution. Even though the Civil War ended slavery, I wouldn't have wanted to live through it. I'm more focused on what I want to do with my life and people who are wound up about these things are less interesting to me.

I've accepted that there are people that are smarter than me that are better equipped to manage public policy, even though bizarre aberrations like the American family court system emerge, I'm not going to spend my limited time fighting City Hall. It's true somebody has to do it or we end up ruled by royal demons at some point, but I'll leave it to people who enjoy it. They have the right to judge me a bad citizen, and I have the right to ignore them.

I don't judge as harshly, as I've worked with criminals for years. Compared to murderers, people who disagree with me politically are cuddly bunnies. I don't think there's one arch-conservative Congressmen whom I would really disagree with who would want to gun me down because we disagree. As long as someone doesn't practically want to murder me, I feel most people want others to be happy and just disagree how to best have that. I don't see monsters behind every lamppost.

9) I'm slowing intellectually, especially since late forties. Memory recall is slower. My creativity is still pretty high, but I want to complete existing projects, not engage in new ones that will take 20 years or more. One can easily extrapolate "If my mind slowed down this much in the last 10 years, what will it be like in 20?" When you are younger you can delude yourself that exercise, food, positive thinking will stop it, but that's just forgetting the fact we all decline and disappear completely.

10) I want to concentrate on what's fun for me: music, nature, bicycles, and a sweet and loving woman who's happy with me, and happy I'm happy with her.

If I don't enjoy my life, no one else will enjoy it for me.

 

[Basement Dweller]

Still waiting for someone to provide me with some good reasons to get married.

As for having kids, this is just self serving ego extension. It's selfish to bring a child into this fucked up place, they could be born with defects, have social problems that you become responsible for, they could abandon you later in life and steal all your wealth...to many risks, not sure of the rewards.

Many of my married friends with kids say 'you won't know until you have kids', well I ask them, what is your experience of what it's like to live free without kids from the moment you had a kid?

There are other paths in life that men never consider, think of the possibilities of what can be achieved with all that energy not being diverted towards family.

 

[Bobco]

I have been married and divorced twice. All the money and bullshit is worth it when I see my grand children scampering around the house on holidays. Deep satisfaction in passing your genes down through the generations.

 

[Basement Dweller]

All the money and bullshit is worth it when I see my grand children scampering around the house on holidays.

Could have easily been achieved without going through the marriage/divorce meatgrinder.

 

[Jack198]

Careful though - do that in the Anglosphere and you'll wind up with common law marriage and be just as screwed. That's what's nice about Quebec - not a common law jurisdiction so no sick thing. Remember it isn't about where you get married, it's about where you get divorced.

But yes, it's more economical and safer to just knock up a suitable breeder and send in the child support checks, thereby not risking any attachment to marital assets. You can even get visitation rights this way. Honestly any rich guy who doesn't do this is throwing his money away.

 

[poutsara]

I have a hard time fully respecting a man who has the means to raise a family but deliberately decides not to do it.

Imagine this scenario:

You have an intergenerational family meeting. A huge one. ...... in the end everyone can agree on the wonder of life and that it's a good thing to see that they left a legacy, that helped not only their own children but many generations after them. To see that the great-grandchild of a rural farmworker and housemaid in Sicily owns a penthouse in Chicago. To see that the darn yuppie did not forget his roots and tells his kids about his Sicilian ancestors. To see that all the hardships and all the toil were eventually worth it. To see that not only the rich and the nobility have family histories to be proud of...

Now, everyone's turning toward you. ...

"So, how about you, young lad? Where is your wife? When are you gonna have kids so that we can have a bigger crowd for next year's meeting?"
...

I clicked on "marry, kids".

This is an awesome post. I have visions of this. This is right on in my thinking. I often ask myself in any decision, "what would my grandfathers think about this?"

 

[CimbomluBkk]

I don't want to get married, but I want to have kids

 

[The Father]

I have a hard time fully respecting a man who has the means to raise a family but deliberately decides not to do it.

Imagine this scenario:

You have an intergenerational family meeting. A huge one. Your parents are there, your grandparents, their parents, your long deceased ancestors from 1789, hundreds of family members. They worked their arses off on farms, in mines, in factories, in offices and as self-employed entrepreneurs, under conditions inconceivable to our comfortable 21st century lifestyle. They went to war as soldiers, were likewise victims of war, poverty, exploitation, servitude or slavery. ...

... your grandfather who lost his leg in WW1 but managed return home, impregnate his wife with four kids and survive the Great Depression and your great-great-great-...-great-grandmother who survived the plague in medieval Europe with three of her nine children, ask you in calm minute:

"So, how about you, young lad? Where is your wife? When are you gonna have kids so that we can have a bigger crowd for next year's meeting?"

I'll tell you what: Don't just give me their marital status. When I can have the ENTIRE environment they had - legal, social, political - then I'll marry. But asking me to accept their marital status but keep THIS legal environment, when men are little more than targets, is preposterous. Likewise, your grandfather with the one leg? His wife fucked him when he SAID she would fuck him. And she cooked 3 meals a day, cleaned the house, ironed his shirts, sewed the holes in his socks, changed every diaper, and stopped talking when told. I'll take that deal, too. But asking me to marry some used-up 35 year old status-seeking attention whore, only to have a legal sword of Damocles over my head every minute she isn't haaaaaaapy, is ridiculous.

 

[The Father]

I have a hard time fully respecting a man who has the means to raise a family but deliberately decides not to do it.

Imagine this scenario:

You have an intergenerational family meeting. A huge one. ...... in the end everyone can agree on the wonder of life and that it's a good thing to see that they left a legacy, that helped not only their own children but many generations after them. To see that the great-grandchild of a rural farmworker and housemaid in Sicily owns a penthouse in Chicago. To see that the darn yuppie did not forget his roots and tells his kids about his Sicilian ancestors. To see that all the hardships and all the toil were eventually worth it. To see that not only the rich and the nobility have family histories to be proud of...

Now, everyone's turning toward you. ...

"So, how about you, young lad? Where is your wife? When are you gonna have kids so that we can have a bigger crowd for next year's meeting?"
...

I clicked on "marry, kids".

This is an awesome post. I have visions of this. This is right on in my thinking. I often ask myself in any decision, "what would my grandfathers think about this?"

Turn it back on them: YOU didn't build todays legal environment. And feminists, also, didn't build it, not by themselves. They couldn't. MEN let women wreck society. The men of the 1920's who allowed them to vote. The men of the 1960's who allowed women to become COMPLETELY out of bounds with natural law. YOUR fathers and grandfathers and great grandfathers.

So maybe you, and you cousins, and your other young male friends should get all these old gentleman in a room. Your uncles, your father, your grandfather - all the old fools who let...THIS...happen. And you should each take a solid stick of wood and BEAT the brains right out of their heads.

 

[mastauser]

1. Do not marry a woman from another country/culture unless you speak her language, or are willing to learn it.
2. Do not get married unless you specifically want to raise children.
3. If you decide to get married, get a prenup, but realize that your prenup might be voided. To prepare for this, prior to marriage you should protect any significant wealth in trusts that are safe from legal judgments. You can also do it on the cheap by hiding physical cash or precious metals in a foreign country. Being 45 and divorced and wiped out/divorce raped/broke sucks, but sucks a lot less if you have that 80k in liquid assets and a condo in someone else's name waiting for you in Thailand.
4. If possible, marry a woman of equal or greater socioeconomic status to you. The idea some men have of securing loyalty by getting some dirt poor Russian or Vietnamese village girl rarely works out in practice.

 

[SlickyBoy]

On a related note, I ran a few Google searches about "hating my marriage" and invariably there were FAR more pages and related searches conducted regarding "hate my husband; want to divorce my husband", etc. It seems like men are much less likely to be moaning and groaning about their marriage on the internet and searching for validation for their desire for a divorce. It makes sense that most of the inquiries are from women I guess, since over 70% of divorces are initiated by women.

 

[SlickyBoy]

It would be good if we could get some more 50 + guys to tune in and tell us how there feelings towards the subject have changed over the years; I ...

I'm 55+, some things that I couldn't can't envision until at least 40:

I started to feel acutely how my idea of la dolce vita really sort of ends at the latest at 67-70? when sex becomes infrequent and not as pleasurable, athletics becomes more limited, etc. You'll notice there's very few posters here over 60. It's because they ( and soon me) don't have the same concerns as young men.

It's not a defect, as you learn and your body changes, it only natural your concerns change. You can stuff yourself with steroids etc, but telomeres deteriorate, immortality is a concern of later generations.

After that, I will consider my self a wise man, not a hedonist, and have much different concerns.

If one accepts this time frame, you accept that in your late 50s you only have about 3500 more days to really live.

Think how fast that goes by, how such a time press makes pettiness more distasteful.

Then that's it. No more "life." Life will be more like meditation and teaching.

That heightened sense of mortality caused me feel about and look at things differently:

1) There is a limited range of personalities in sane, functioning people--Each new person you meet is more and more like a person you've known previously, therefore meeting new people becomes less interesting. Because you have less time, the overhead of basic introductions, scheduling initial trust-building time, and screening for unreliable people becomes less tolerable.

The productivity of collaborating with known reliable people--including women--becomes much more important.

2) My sex drive changed and became less "athletic," one might say. Where before a particular pneumatically perfect cheerleader body under control of a dimwitted, petty mind was very appealing, now it is much less so-- likable but not worth a lot of work and time. I know I don't want the garish, expensive luxury of a Corvette, so I don't have desire to test drive one any more.

You become more aware and appreciative of subtle things, like the way a particular woman might sing while she cooks for you. The "amazing" things such as particular style/facets of beauty become less blinding as your sex drive changes. See #3.

3) As you become wiser about people, you start to sense more accurately how much a person actually cares about you, and as Janka mentioned, you value that they know you. Fucking a super-hot girl who is very narcissistic and is essentially using you for an ego-boost or dildo becomes surprisingly like playing a sport one doesn't like much. She's not really even there. The pure sensation is not as satisfying without emotional intimacy.

4) I don't feel like I have nights to waste anymore, and being in a bar or trying to organize meetings with new (usually unreliable) women leads to wasted nights sleeping alone. I don't like sleeping alone or being a full-time social engineer trying to juggle a harem (see #5). I've noticed this is in marked contrast to some players here who dislike sleeping with a woman. Everyone has different attachment circuitry, I'm not judging.

5) As I become more socially skilled and better learn to sense the needs of others more, I realize how the women I meet ( who aren't hardened sluts) crave stability for their biological role of having children.

I have had to make the existential decision as to whether I want to keep running through women (if they're not hardened sluts) letting them hope might stay with them. You have to be pretty cold knowing what's going to happen and disappointing them again and again. I don't want to wear a mask.

Also, of course it gets harder and harder to get 7+ girls, even in the third world, as you near 60, so when one likes you it becomes more and more preferable to hang on to her instead of going through the whole tedious routine of looking for a another girl 30 years younger than yourself.

6) Traveling and jet lag become more tiring and less appealing, and as I've only recently noticed, I think adapting to new climates also has. I was exhausted for at least 6 weeks after my recent move to the Philippines. I think it was a combination of culture shock at widespread poverty, high humidity, and more/different bacteria in the environment.

7) Like mentioned before, the more places you've been, the the more each new place is similar to a previous one. Only so many environments can support human life. So I've started to want to find a favorable place and let myself feel comfortable there. "Settle down" are dirty words to adventurous young men, there are some places I really like and want to be there as much as I can in my limited time left.

8) Politics has become less and less interesting to me. Large cultural changes like the advent of Feminism, Communism, and civil rights take multiple decades to happen. More like half-centuries, really. I think the time from the last race-hate lynching in the USA to when Black people could fairly easily vote was about 50 years.

So I won't be around to see any real significant change in these areas. Actually , I HOPE I won't be around to see sudden changes, because it seems most positive change is incremental. It's easy to destroy something, hard to build. I don't think I would have wanted to live in Russia after the Bolshevik Revolution. Even though the Civil War ended slavery, I wouldn't have wanted to live through it. I'm more focused on what I want to do with my life and people who are wound up about these things are less interesting to me.

I've accepted that there are people that are smarter than me that are better equipped to manage public policy, even though bizarre aberrations like the American family court system emerge, I'm not going to spend my limited time fighting City Hall. It's true somebody has to do it or we end up ruled by royal demons at some point, but I'll leave it to people who enjoy it. They have the right to judge me a bad citizen, and I have the right to ignore them.

I don't judge as harshly, as I've worked with criminals for years. Compared to murderers, people who disagree with me politically are cuddly bunnies. I don't think there's one arch-conservative Congressmen whom I would really disagree with who would want to gun me down because we disagree. As long as someone doesn't practically want to murder me, I feel most people want others to be happy and just disagree how to best have that. I don't see monsters behind every lamppost.

9) I'm slowing intellectually, especially since late forties. Memory recall is slower. My creativity is still pretty high, but I want to complete existing projects, not engage in new ones that will take 20 years or more. One can easily extrapolate "If my mind slowed down this much in the last 10 years, what will it be like in 20?" When you are younger you can delude yourself that exercise, food, positive thinking will stop it, but that's just forgetting the fact we all decline and disappear completely.

10) I want to concentrate on what's fun for me: music, nature, bicycles, and a sweet and loving woman who's happy with me, and happy I'm happy with her.

If I don't enjoy my life, no one else will enjoy it for me.

Post of the century - even if it is a little depressing. Thanks for the wisdom; not too far behind you but now even more to think about.

 

[philosophical_recovery]

I'm the last straight man in my family to carry the name. The family tree has survived many wars, and who knows what else. The thought of it ending with me just seems silly. But I wouldn't get married in any way that involves the government.

If I somehow strike it rich and can afford it, I'd just have a harem with multiple "wives" and do everything I could to start an intelligent generation of young men and women, and teach them as much as possible about the world as I can.

 

[iknowexactly]

All the money and bullshit is worth it when I see my grand children scampering around the house on holidays.

Could have easily been achieved without going through the marriage/divorce meatgrinder.

I don't think one can be sure about that.

What about the cultural expectations around the women he married and divorced? Would they have had his "love children?"

I don't know.

 

[Easy_C]

Married. I actually went that route because I was able to find a girl who is more or less a Unicorn, thanks to being homeschooled by a large Catholic family, with a very masculine father, in a small town, and who grew up without access to television.

The other factor is my long term goals: I'm really not interested in having "tons of hot pussy", because girls can be pretty boring. I'm more interested in dedicating my energy to personal development and advancing my business interests.....both because I want to try my hand at those challenges and because that will enable me to get out and see more of the world. I didn't even consider marriage until I found a girl whose personality supports that goal and she more than delivers: she helps pay the bills, doesn't cause any drama, and keeps my needs met which enables me to focus all of my energy on advancing my career goals.


Definitely wouldn't recommend it for everyone though and definitely wouldn't recommend it with 99% of women out there. Looking back I can count the number of girls who would be good wives for some guy out there with a single hand. If you do get with a virgin. Breaking the hymen sucks but they tend to bond strong.

 

[TheSearcher]

True that! (in response to the above poster)

 

[Sonsowey]

Every single one of us could have dozens of kids if we wanted.

We are just animals, we are just here to reproduce, we are all in the shadow of Genghis Khan and Charlemagne.

We could have more living ancestors than George Washington or Churchill if we just tried.

We spend so much time and energy learning how to bed women without having offspring. We are literally right there, face to face with the entire point of existance, and choose to pull out. Its like creating a work of art and just as its done, throwing it in the trash.

 

[Phoenix]

We are literally right there, face to face with the entire point of existance, and choose to pull out. Its like creating a work of art and just as its done, throwing it in the trash.

Lol, wow deep stuff man. I think though its more like once you've framed that canvas it's permanent, so 'why not try painting it again, it might be even better next time'.