Yes or No. In average - wives dictate the success of a marriage/husband-wife relationship.

NotaBene

Sparrow
Protestant
I AM incredibly particular about everything I wear - but I wear things that I find "pretty" or "beautiful" or "cute" and not things that are made specifically to be "sexy."

Being particular about what you wear means you are extremely sensitive to how you come across to others, husband included. That in itself is not a bad thing, but it can become unhealthy when you become really self-conscious and care too much.

For wives, I think the trick is actually caring less about how you *think* you look and dress for your husband's preference. That's what I'm asking, on behalf of my married brothers. Since you know husbands are SO visually-oriented, you must realize that being fat, for instance, is a much bigger issue for a wife than merely health.

So many wives assume that because she thinks something is attractive on her (or another woman) her husband will automatically like it. I can't tell you how false this can be.

Those things were adopted for widespread use from the adult entertainment/sex work marketing department.

Clothing in itself is not impure, it's how it's used and interpreted. We use it to judge others (like in James) and to appear better than others, and to lead others into sin. It's really kind of a mess, and the amount of time and money we spend on clothing is crazy.

But clothing can also be put to holy uses, just as a camera can. It's not the tool that's at fault, but the humans using the tool. I'm advocating for every wife to use clothing as a tool, to "tempt" her husband into bed often, because you're the only woman he's allowed to have.

But it is not at all immodest to be undressed to any degree in front of my husband only.

But I find it distasteful, and I absolutely feel a need to clarify to other women that just because something pleases your husband, does NOT mean it necessarily pleases God for you to go along with it.

Agree on both counts. However, I'd like to add: just because a wife is *uncomfortable* with an outfit does not mean her husband's preference is sinful. It's an issue to work out together, to understand each other. Married sex is a wonderful thing because the more we seek to please our spouse, the more we please ourselves. The more selfish we are about our own needs and wants, the less we get in return.

Basically my rule of thumb for what is acceptable involves asking myself: "would I be embarrassed if my teenage son found this accidentally dropped on the laundry room floor?"

I don't think that's a good rule of thumb. Just because you're embarrassed if someone knew you wore something doesn't mean it's wrong for you to wear it for your husband's eyes only.

I think a better rule is: If my husband saw me in this, would his mouth drop open and his eyes get really big? Leave the rest to sort itself out.

Here is something that I would consider completely immodest to wear in public.

Other than the empire waist (which I can't stand) that's exactly the kind of outfits I like my wife in. It would have to be more modest for public, of course.

Some of her private "date" outfits are a bit more skimpy, but nothing like the second set of pictures. But honestly I see nothing wrong with either set, it's just that I don't happen to like them (they are too close to nudity).

wealth never crossed my mind

I do not doubt you, but I do challenge you to think about why women are attracted to men, and why their clothing matters at all. It may take years to figure this out, and I'm still working on it, but the answers may surprise you. It goes beyond "that looks nice".

Women are attracted to wealth, status, and competence. Or so I've read. How this works out with clothing and cars I don't know, but I suspect what I wrote before - a man wearing an expensive, tailored suit is signaling his wealth or status, and it can be very immodest and lead women into temptation, exactly like the "rich man" in James (chapter 4 I think) and Pharisees in "flowing robes" who faked being a member of the wealthy class with their clothing.
 

Kitty Tantrum

Kingfisher
Woman
Catholic
I think a better rule is: If my husband saw me in this, would his mouth drop open and his eyes get really big? Leave the rest to sort itself out.
See, I disagree COMPLETELY and cannot leave this statement unchallenged for every woman who comes here to read and take away as "right" just because it is POPULAR with men on the internet.

Unbridled LUST is not of God. Even in marriage.

I won't pretend to be qualified to draw the lines of what is sinful vs. not, but the idea that marriage is a condition in which anything and everything becomes acceptable and appropriate based on agreement between husband and wife is not correct.
 

Atlas Shrugged

Woodpecker
Woman
Protestant
I do not doubt you, but I do challenge you to think about why women are attracted to men, and why their clothing matters at all. It may take years to figure this out, and I'm still working on it, but the answers may surprise you. It goes beyond "that looks nice".

Women are attracted to wealth, status, and competence. Or so I've read. How this works out with clothing and cars I don't know, but I suspect what I wrote before - a man wearing an expensive, tailored suit is signaling his wealth or status, and it can be very immodest and lead women into temptation, exactly like the "rich man" in James (chapter 4 I think) and Pharisees in "flowing robes" who faked being a member of the wealthy class with their clothing.
Guess this is the every human is different comes into play. Men should be able to take care of their wives and any children but there is no set amount of what they need to make. If a man can make it work on 30k a year great. Doesn’t have to be 6 figures. A tailored suit doesn’t have to be name brand super expensive. In fact I don’t know anything about brands cause I hit the clearance rack and thrift stores. Sure maybe some women see designer names as a must but I don’t. I think a Walmart bag can double as a purse. Im in my 40’s and I’m on my second purse of my entire life and I bought neither of them. First one lasted a while with safety pins holding it together. I’m probably the minority but we do exist. In fact and I’m sure this isn’t nice but if I see a man driving an expensive car I automatically think he is uppity and would not enjoy a conversation with him. That’s just me. Women can be simple just like men. A nice suit can be just that. A nice looking fitted suit.
 

Kitty Tantrum

Kingfisher
Woman
Catholic
Mouth dropping, eyes getting really big over hyper-sexual visual stimulation = lust.

I dress (most of the time and in most places) to make my husband's eyes sparkle, his smile widen, to see him look down at me, take in what he sees, and say something like "you really are lovely." And he does. A lot.

This can be accomplished with clothes that are quite simple and entirely appropriate for public wear.

Then when we are alone together, there is no "hubba hubba AOOOOGA" eye-popping or drooling required. To me, that is CRASS.

There has never been any kind of "performance" or overt "display" involved in our intimacy. No imposition of aesthetics that were invented to SELL sex.

Most of the time our intimacy is precluded by simple closeness and warmth and affection. Tenderness, not lust.

There is no lack of passion arising from this, on his part or mine. We are probably "intimate" with greater frequency AND unflagging enthusiasm than most couples.

but I do challenge you to think about why women are attracted to men, and why their clothing matters at all.
I am a woman of very simple tastes. My husband "dresses up" when society dictates it to be appropriate or required; not to please me. His wardrobe, like mine, is very practical. He wears clothes that look good on him, that fit him well and accentuate his form - but nothing that looks "expensive." Nothing that fits a popular consumer aesthetic suggestive of status. I just roll my eyes when I see men dressed like that.

He is an absolute godsend to me - specifically because he is not attached to any consumer aesthetic. That would be so exhausting.
 

IconWriter

Woodpecker
Woman
Orthodox
Gold Member
I'm wondering how all the young men in this present culture will feel regarding their wives, when they are past child-bearing age, or 80 or 90 years old, or if they were to have a disfiguring accident or illness someday? Are young men these days so wrapped up in physical appearance, which is fleeting and fades away, instead of the heart and soul of their God-given soul-mate?
 

NotaBene

Sparrow
Protestant
If a man can make it work on 30k a year great.

We make it work on much less than that, heh.

In fact I don’t know anything about brands cause I hit the clearance rack and thrift stores.

You would absolutely love my wife. She's started making her own clothes too recently.

I dress... to make my husband's eyes sparkle, his smile widen, to see him look down at me, take in what he sees, and say something like "you really are lovely."

Great, that's really all I'm asking more wives to do. But if another husband looks down at his wife and sees a fat, frumpy woman with short hair, sweatpants, and a blouse from the 80s.... you think I'm joking, but you should see some of our homeschool co-op moms! And that's all hubby gets at home too, she won't put any effort in because "he should accept me the way I am".

And if another (imaginary) husband playfully says, "Darling, I would love it if you would wear this," and holds up a band-aid (hehe), bless her heart if she doesn't immediately react with scorn and accusation but with a helpful spirit and a wink.

I mean worst case, he just wants her 99% naked, which you've agreed is acceptable anyway. So I'm not sure why you're all being defensive.

How sexy is "too sexy" for the marriage bed in regards to clothing? Are you willing to draw a line biblically, or is it just what you find personally distasteful? I'm certainly willing to draw a line OUTSIDE marriage and in public, but I believe modesty to be a virtue outside marriage, not inside.

Mouth dropping, eyes getting really big over hyper-sexual visual stimulation = lust.

I did not understand your "crass" caricature, and I'm not sure what you think I'm like, some kind of ape who hits his wife over the head?

I don't want to get into a debate on what lust means. Can we agree that desire for one's spouse, even intense desire, is something God approves of? Sure, the older you get the less... vigorous things might get, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.


I just roll my eyes when I see men dressed like that.

I mean, so do I. But not all women see it this way.
 

Rob Banks

Pelican
Great, that's really all I'm asking more wives to do. But if another husband looks down at his wife and sees a fat, frumpy woman with short hair, sweatpants, and a blouse from the 80s.... you think I'm joking, but you should see some of our homeschool co-op moms! And that's all hubby gets at home too, she won't put any effort in because "he should accept me the way I am".
Modern society (including "conservative" society) seems to think there are two kinds of women:

1) Those who go for the "supermodel" look (makeup, lipstick, super thin, behaves seductively) who pride themselves on their sex appeal.

and

2) Frumpy, short-haired feminists who pride themselves on NOT having any sex appeal.

In fact, they are two sides of the same coin.

The "coin" being the array of "styles" (each coming with its own pre-packaged personality traits) that modern society pushes on women.

The feminists are actually right in that society pushes women towards option #1. But they fail to see option #2 is just as bad.

And the reverse goes for conservatives and "red-pill" types.
 

Starlight

Kingfisher
Woman
Protestant
But if another husband looks down at his wife and sees a fat, frumpy woman with short hair, sweatpants, and a blouse from the 80s.... you think I'm joking, but you should see some of our homeschool co-op moms! And that's all hubby gets at home too, she won't put any effort in because "he should accept me the way I am".
“Fat and frumpy” has been pushed as normal for men for such a long time. The 80’s beer gut dad has been totally normalized.

Edit: Why do you care what the other co-op moms look like? Wth?
 

Kitty Tantrum

Kingfisher
Woman
Catholic
And if another (imaginary) husband playfully says, "Darling, I would love it if you would wear this," and holds up a band-aid (hehe), bless her heart if she doesn't immediately react with scorn and accusation but with a helpful spirit and a wink.
An actual band-aid would be cute and humorous.

If he held up a pair of nipple pasties - not so much.
 

NotaBene

Sparrow
Protestant
“Fat and frumpy” has been pushed as normal for men for such a long time. The 80’s beer gut dad has been totally normalized.

I mean over 70% of the US is overweight, both men and women, so it's a culture problem for everyone. I'm not condoning either, it's just that we're here talking about frumpy wives, and I see them everywhere. I'm not sure if you ladies see it the same way in reverse or not.

My wife told me one time that she didn't mind at all if I gained weight, but honestly I think this was because she wanted more of a "buffer" between us, heh. She is right around 120 and I'm 130, OMAD for four years now. We're both the same weight as high school 20+ years ago.
 

Pray_Everyday

Robin
Woman
Other Christian
NotaBene, I just wanted to say that I appreciate your insights from a male point of view. While all your advice may not apply to every single person (for example, I have never understood the whole "women liking men in suits", but I have to acknowledge that it does apply to the majority of women), as a whole you do have some good insights and I think you are coming from a good place.
But if another husband looks down at his wife and sees a fat, frumpy woman with short hair, sweatpants, and a blouse from the 80s.... you think I'm joking, but you should see some of our homeschool co-op moms! And that's all hubby gets at home too, she won't put any effort in because "he should accept me the way I am".

A wife should put in an effort to be attractive to her husband. And the matter of age has nothing to do with this - just because a woman is grandma age doesn't mean that she has to chop off her hair, wear sweats, or let herself get fat.

(Of course, a disfiguring accident or illness is completely out of someone's control, and is a special circumstance. But it is definitely in every wife's control to put down the fork.)
And if another (imaginary) husband playfully says, "Darling, I would love it if you would wear this," and holds up a band-aid (hehe), bless her heart if she doesn't immediately react with scorn and accusation but with a helpful spirit and a wink.

I mean worst case, he just wants her 99% naked, which you've agreed is acceptable anyway. So I'm not sure why you're all being defensive.

How sexy is "too sexy" for the marriage bed in regards to clothing? Are you willing to draw a line biblically, or is it just what you find personally distasteful? I'm certainly willing to draw a line OUTSIDE marriage and in public, but I believe modesty to be a virtue outside marriage, not inside.

I know we had our little "debate" about this a few pages back on this thread, but I agree with you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a wife wearing something to please her husband in the privacy of the bedroom - and never outside where she may accidentally cause a man who is not her husband to lust. I still stand by the fact that not every single husband out there is into that (just like how not every single woman is into a man in a suit), but that doesn't make it wrong.

If any wife out there takes this advice and wears something her husband wants her to, in private, there is no shame in that. It is not adultery, it is not prohibited by the Bible. While the word "slutty" does have a negative connotation to me, "sexy" within the marriage and in private should not be an issue.

However, I'd like to add: just because a wife is *uncomfortable* with an outfit does not mean her husband's preference is sinful.
Also, just because a wife is willing/comfortable to dress up "sexy" for her husband in private does not make her a harlot.
Women are attracted to wealth, status, and competence. Or so I've read.
I agree with you on this. To me  personally, a suit doesn't signify that, but I can agree that an incompetent man would be unattractive. Wealth is relative, of course - a man that makes 50k and saves 30k ranks higher than a man that makes 150k and blows through it all on consumerist garbage.
 

Atlas Shrugged

Woodpecker
Woman
Protestant
NotaBene, I just wanted to say that I appreciate your insights from a male point of view. While all your advice may not apply to every single person (for example, I have never understood the whole "women liking men in suits", but I have to acknowledge that it does apply to the majority of women), as a whole you do have some good insights and I think you are coming from a good place.


A wife should put in an effort to be attractive to her husband. And the matter of age has nothing to do with this - just because a woman is grandma age doesn't mean that she has to chop off her hair, wear sweats, or let herself get fat.

(Of course, a disfiguring accident or illness is completely out of someone's control, and is a special circumstance. But it is definitely in every wife's control to put down the fork.)


I know we had our little "debate" about this a few pages back on this thread, but I agree with you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a wife wearing something to please her husband in the privacy of the bedroom - and never outside where she may accidentally cause a man who is not her husband to lust. I still stand by the fact that not every single husband out there is into that (just like how not every single woman is into a man in a suit), but that doesn't make it wrong.

If any wife out there takes this advice and wears something her husband wants her to, in private, there is no shame in that. It is not adultery, it is not prohibited by the Bible. While the word "slutty" does have a negative connotation to me, "sexy" within the marriage and in private should not be an issue.


Also, just because a wife is willing/comfortable to dress up "sexy" for her husband in private does not make her a harlot.

I agree with you on this. To me  personally, a suit doesn't signify that, but I can agree that an incompetent man would be unattractive. Wealth is relative, of course - a man that makes 50k and saves 30k ranks higher than a man that makes 150k and blows through it all on consumerist garbage.
I’m curious as to why you dislike suits. Or did I misread or misunderstand. There are many clothing options that could be appropriate due to being covered up but for a man a suit looks best. Like in church men should wears suits or at least nice trousers and a nice shirt. Now a Chicago bears track suit fully covers and is not immodest, but not only do I not want to see that at church, I don’t want to see that on earth.
 

NotaBene

Sparrow
Protestant
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a wife wearing something to please her husband in the privacy of the bedroom - and never outside where she may accidentally cause a man who is not her husband to lust. I still stand by the fact that not every single husband out there is into that (just like how not every single woman is into a man in a suit), but that doesn't make it wrong.

Thanks for making the effort to understand, and giving me the benefit of the doubt. You really do get it. I'm really not trying to be heretical or blasphemous - I just want every married brother of mine to have as much fun, for as many years, as I have.

And to accomplish that, I want to see every married sister of mine absolutely having great marriages and the most fulfilling sex lives out of any religion or culture on the planet. If that means more band-aids and track suits, then so be it!

10903105-4.jpg
 

Pray_Everyday

Robin
Woman
Other Christian
I’m curious as to why you dislike suits. Or did I misread or misunderstand. There are many clothing options that could be appropriate due to being covered up but for a man a suit looks best. Like in church men should wears suits or at least nice trousers and a nice shirt. Now a Chicago bears track suit fully covers and is not immodest, but not only do I not want to see that at church, I don’t want to see that on earth.

It's not that I dislike suits, it's just never been the aesthetic that I find attractive in a man. It may have to do with upbringing if I had to take a guess - my father had a very decent paying uniform-wearing blue collar job, and I don't think he even owned a suit. Every other male adult I knew had a blue collar job, and I didn't grow up going to church so I didn't see suits there. The only times I ever saw a man in a suit was a lawyer on tv, so to me it didn't signify wealth so much as  trouble.

For church, a dress shirt and tie is appropriate, and even thought I have heard some pastors try to enforce suits, my husband and I don't think there is any biblical basis. If he did choose to wear a suit, I definitely wouldn't care if it was the expensive tailored kind, and I'm not even sure I would be able to tell the difference. But approprate church wear is not synonymous to me with attractive, regardless.

(Actually, since becoming a Christian I have had to face the fact that the aesthetic I have found attractive in the past is not appropriate for a Christian to be attracted to - my personal conviction. I have zero input in my husband's clothing choices, as I'll leave that up to his personal convictions.)
 

Atlas Shrugged

Woodpecker
Woman
Protestant
Thanks for making the effort to understand, and giving me the benefit of the doubt. You really do get it. I'm really not trying to be heretical or blasphemous - I just want every married brother of mine to have as much fun, for as many years, as I have.

And to accomplish that, I want to see every married sister of mine absolutely having great marriages and the most fulfilling sex lives out of any religion or culture on the planet. If that means more band-aids and track suits, then so be it!

View attachment 42512
No no no no no. Let no one in their right mind want their spouse to wear this.
 
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