Zionist Conservatism vs Groypers thread

pitbullowner

Kingfisher
rotekz said:
It gets worse. Charlie Kirk wants 50 million migrants to the US in 10 years. "Big wall, big door."
And Trump is promoting this guy!


From: EXPOSED: Charlie Kirk Want’s 50 Million Immigrants in under 10 years




he's a plant by the koch brothers. There's no way we can deny it now (Koch brothers are for radical large scale libertarianism that would essentially destroy the last bit of remaining white culture in America)

Openly okay with faggots and trannies being a huge voice for the conservative movement, big on open borders. He definitely needs to be exposed, but cucked boomers won't care. Hopefully the rest of Gen Z can pick up the slack and find a fight. IDK about Gen X and Gen Y (millenials) I think they're a lost cause for the most part .
 

Athanasius

Kingfisher
pitbullowner said:
he's a plant by the koch brothers. There's no way we can deny it now (Koch brothers are for radical large scale libertarianism that would essentially destroy the last bit of remaining white culture in America)
Kirk just seems like another one guy getting paid well to shill for oligarchs, pushing tepid, road-to-nowhere proposals until the demographic clock runs out. He's the equivalent of that old four corners offense they used to run in college basketball before the shot clock was implemented.

I've wondered about the end goal of the Kochs, though. Bringing in tens of millions of add'l vibrants will tend toward social libertinism, as since no one can agree we'll all agree on official degeneracy. But that hasn't really been the Kochs' thing as much as economic libertarianism (Cato Institute). They and other oligarchs have benefitted bringing in cheap workers, but I don't see how a majority of leftist brown voters will drive things toward a libertarian society economically after they gain ascendancy. Maybe they just think it'll stay so fragmented that they can still make money off it anyway.
 
Athanasius said:

Is this really Charlie Kirk? This is ridiculous even by his standards.

I'm going to asking liberals and cucks this directly: Would you rather live in an 75% white society or 75% non-white society? If they say non-white, then why aren't you living in one of those now? There are plenty of such communities in any major city. And if they say white, then why are you sentencing your grandkids to living in an 75% non-white country given your stand on allowing in millions of immigrants every year?
And we all know how Charlie Kirk would respond to big door migration to Israel.

Japan is also not allowed to stay Japanese - they absolutely must be enriched, because 50 mio. Japanese living in Japan in 80 years is a big tragedy.

But a 30% native German and 50% Muslim Germany is a great wonderful multicultural success story. I am sure that the Germans of 2100 will be living in a wonderful place of milk and honey while the racist Japanese will be suffering greatly.

Nevermind that a state can usher in an enforced babyboom any time (high taxation and fines for couples not having 3+ kids each), so Japan can easily turn it around.

But good luck turning that 30% German-Germany around.
 
Athanasius said:
pitbullowner said:
he's a plant by the koch brothers. There's no way we can deny it now (Koch brothers are for radical large scale libertarianism that would essentially destroy the last bit of remaining white culture in America)
Kirk just seems like another one guy getting paid well to shill for oligarchs, pushing tepid, road-to-nowhere proposals until the demographic clock runs out. He's the equivalent of that old four corners offense they used to run in college basketball before the shot clock was implemented.

I've wondered about the end goal of the Kochs, though. Bringing in tens of millions of add'l vibrants will tend toward social libertinism, as since no one can agree we'll all agree on official degeneracy. But that hasn't really been the Kochs' thing as much as economic libertarianism (Cato Institute). They and other oligarchs have benefitted bringing in cheap workers, but I don't see how a majority of leftist brown voters will drive things toward a libertarian society economically after they gain ascendancy. Maybe they just think it'll stay so fragmented that they can still make money off it anyway.
Kirk is the "conservative" version of this Antifa comic:
[attachment=43193]

+ open legal borders
+ voting for legals
+ libertarian capitalism good

In reality the oligarchs are aiming somewhere in the middle - take the Orwellian hate-speech laws from Antifa and combine it with libertarian large-corporate capitalism snuffing out medium competition and the middle class.
 

Attachments

Mr Gibbs

Robin
His response is such B.S. and they turned likes/dislikes as well as comments off.
It was a legitimate question and Daniel Hannan completely obfuscates and throws a word salad in his face.


Subsequent discussion on Daniel Hannan
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Turning Point USA donations more than double, fuel fight on culture war's front lines
Donations to the conservative student activist group Turning Point USA have more than doubled, leading it to expand its footprint to some 2,000 colleges, universities, and high schools, and deploy thousands of supporters to challenge the wave of young liberal protests tearing down statues and calling the United States systemically racist.

In new tax documents, the Indiana-based group and its affiliates, one of which hosted President Trump in the packed Phoenix Dream City Church yesterday, showed contributions jumped from $10 million in 2018 to $24 million in 2019, and gross receipts at over $30 million.

The seven-year-old organization started by Charlie Kirk and initially funded by conservative donor Foster Friess, had gross receipts of just $4.3 million in 2015.

The new numbers show that Turning Point USA has become one of the best-funded student activist groups at a key time in the Trump presidency and culture wars challenging the nation.

It is often under fire on liberal campuses and attacked by liberal media. For example, Kirk was called a “right-wing provocateur” by the New York Times.

“We’re growing,” Kirk told Secrets, who called his organization a “battle tank.” He added, “This is a multidimensional culture war machine that is going to fight for the soul of our country and to save America from what the Left is trying to do, and people should get comfort that Turning Point USA is in a very strong position.”

The nonprofit group that promotes the Constitution, free markets, and capitalism is forming chapters daily and has 847 on campuses. It has members on over a thousand others.
 

gework

Ostrich
Gold Member
Some time ago I came into contact with an Israeli Jew, in a professional capacity. He could be described as Israeli deep state, works in national security and sits on a board with a former CIA director. I was providing him with something for free. In exchange I just asked him questions. It all seemed kosher and he invited me to Israel and offered to send me something that was of use to me. He seemed like he was somewhere between the position of Zero Hedge and Ben Shapiro.

When I asked for him to send me that thing, he didn't. He instead sent me a paltry squib. So I ended communication.

A while back he contacted me again and asked for something. I gave him a price. He took the thing and didn't pay. I didn't hear from him again until more recently he asked for something else.

Having looked further into his profile it seems it's the same pattern. He is positioned in such a way that presents the mirage of being a US ally, while providing nothing and drawing The US into Israel's wars.

In my conversations with him he outlined what is going on under the bonnet, which is that most of The Gulf states, Israel and The US are secretly coordinating against the enemies of Israel and The Sunni. It seemed apparent that without US participation in this scheme Israel is essentially doomed in the area. Israel is engaged as a primary agent in protecting Saudi against threats to its government. As radical as The House of Saud may be, a portion of the Saudi population is becoming more radical and wants to become an overt jihad state. The situation is The Gulf states require Isreali-US help for protection, Israel requires Sunni standoff to the Palestine situation. The US gets regional peace, which is good for trade, but at a huge cost to security.

My guess is that at some point in the not too distant future Israel will cut ties with Saudis and let The House of Saud fall, preferably after a solution to Iran.

I also get most of my money from an Israeli company. For a long time the relationship was very good. But it's descended into barely being able to get hold of them with a huge bill outstanding. So they have got to go. Also cutting my last tie with Google. My days of being available of shabbos are over.

From what I've heard of others who have had dealing with The Jews, this is how it goes.

 

Easy_C

Crow

This one I think is a massive mistake for Fuentes to react so defensively and firmly insist there is no solution and that anyone who disagrees with him is “infantile”.


He doesn’t actually have any answer besides saying “we can’t talk about it”. That’s an insufficient answer because

A: Insisting “there is no solution” is a losing message. A huge component of the reason the left wins is that they push aggressively for something. Right wingers don’t do offense for some reason and if you win 90% of battles that way you’re still losing.

B: you need a goal for people to rally around. Failure to do so is a mistake
 

It_is_my_time

Hummingbird

This one I think is a massive mistake for Fuentes to react so defensively and firmly insist there is no solution and that anyone who disagrees with him is “infantile”.


He doesn’t actually have any answer besides saying “we can’t talk about it”. That’s an insufficient answer because

A: Insisting “there is no solution” is a losing message. A huge component of the reason the left wins is that they push aggressively for something. Right wingers don’t do offense for some reason and if you win 90% of battles that way you’re still losing.

B: you need a goal for people to rally around. Failure to do so is a mistake
If Nick stops attacking the guys twice his age, who are way more educated and experienced to the "right" of him and just worked as a stepping stone that would be enough. But if he is going to attack the true red pill guys to the right of him, so that his base stays stuck just past TPUSA and never discovers the true red pill and then he black pills them, that is disastrous for all of us.
 
His response is such B.S. and they turned likes/dislikes as well as comments off.
It was a legitimate question and Daniel Hannan completely obfuscates and throws a word salad in his face.


Subsequent discussion on Daniel Hannan
Hannan comes off well here, and pays the Groyper the respect of answering his complex question in detail.

What is your gripe, specifically?

When you use "word salad", do you mean "doesn't have a simple three word answer to a problem with innumerable moving parts"?

Daniel doesn't insult him, he doesn't dismiss him. He grapples with an answer to an unclear question. Can you explain why this is an obfuscation and why it should be written off as bad faith (as is implied)?
 

It_is_my_time

Hummingbird
There's always a solution, no matter how unpleasant.

What Fuentes means is that there is no solution which puts him front and center. He's built himself and his fan base around dissident lol-speech and he's correct that there is no solution revolving around dissident lol-speech.
They have two choices at this time...

#1) Swallow the blue pill and try to get back in with the GOP and our weird new society. But deep down they know this is not a long term solution. It may not even work within 5 years.

#2) Admit they were wrong about optics, admit they were wrong about the Alt Right, and then join them as the JV squad.

Or I guess the can linger around in political purgatory becoming Cath-Irony Bros.
 

Easy_C

Crow
They have two choices at this time...

#1) Swallow the blue pill and try to get back in with the GOP and our weird new society. But deep down they know this is not a long term solution. It may not even work within 5 years.
Within 5 years?

It doesn't work NOW. Anywhere you can find unfiltered man on the street opinions people are fed up with the lol speech, "owning libs", and tweets and are demanding action. the right wing wants more. the left is far past the point of dialogue, and the "normies" are both irrelevant to the conversation both because they'll go towards whoever exhibits stronger frame [right now that is leftists by a mile except for the people Fuentes is shitting on) and because the lol speech never reaches them anyway. their version of the internet consists of music videos, cute animals, and Daily show clips. I highly doubt most of them even know Fuentes exists and most don't get anything more than Limbaugh or Hannity until Carlson started taking a stand.
 

It_is_my_time

Hummingbird
Within 5 years?

It doesn't work NOW. Anywhere you can find unfiltered man on the street opinions people are fed up with the lol speech, "owning libs", and tweets and are demanding action. the right wing wants more. the left is far past the point of dialogue, and the "normies" are both irrelevant to the conversation both because they'll go towards whoever exhibits stronger frame [right now that is leftists by a mile except for the people Fuentes is shitting on) and because the lol speech never reaches them anyway. their version of the internet consists of music videos, cute animals, and Daily show clips. I highly doubt most of them even know Fuentes exists and most don't get anything more than Limbaugh or Hannity until Carlson started taking a stand.
I'm not saying that Nick and the Groypers can infiltrate the GOP and save society. That was tried and it will never work.

I'm saying Nick and the Groypers might find temporary employment in the GOP and hide their power levels. But that will only work for a few more years until the GOP is squashed anyway.

Their only hope in salvation is to admit they were wrong about the Alt Right/3rd position and bring their audience over to the true red pill thinkers.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
The time for debate in the US is over. At this late stage what could possibly be gained by having debates about the merits of alternative forms of government. Let's pretend that Fuentes has a whopping 100k strong following and he manages to drag each and every one of them into the Spencer fold.

What then?

Well, nothing. Spencer et al will take that 10% increase in his viewership and use it to become 10% more effective IRL which is to say Zero multiplied by 110%. IE Zero. They couldn't even get to within %5 of a margin for building a third party much less take on the entrenched uniparty GOP.

Fuentes like every other Right wing dissident in the country needs to put on his big boy pants and tell his followers to do likewise, then they move to a region of a state where they can form mutual defense alliances if not outright militias.

This internet shit is done. It's over. If American men don't use this last, brief window of opportunity to organise real life alliances that they can count on in the times ahead then when the lights go out on the internet Right for good it will be too late. Imagine everything to the Right of Jeb Bush was struck from the internet. How in the heck would you go about forming a Right wing mutual protection alliance?

Would you go to a GOP convention and look for the guys grinding their teeth when Lady Maga is lecturing the crowd about how democrats are the real transphobes?

Fuentes needs to tell his followers, "go and meet each other IRL, move in together and act as though your lives depend on that brotherhood, because they do.
 

It_is_my_time

Hummingbird
The time for debate in the US is over. At this late stage what could possibly be gained by having debates about the merits of alternative forms of government. Let's pretend that Fuentes has a whopping 100k strong following and he manages to drag each and every one of them into the Spencer fold.

What then?

Well, nothing. Spencer et al will take that 10% increase in his viewership and use it to become 10% more effective IRL which is to say Zero multiplied by 110%. IE Zero. They couldn't even get to within %5 of a margin for building a third party much less take on the entrenched uniparty GOP.

Fuentes like every other Right wing dissident in the country needs to put on his big boy pants and tell his followers to do likewise, then they move to a region of a state where they can form mutual defense alliances if not outright militias.

This internet shit is done. It's over. If American men don't use this last, brief window of opportunity to organise real life alliances that they can count on in the times ahead then when the lights go out on the internet Right for good it will be too late. Imagine everything to the Right of Jeb Bush was struck from the internet. How in the heck would you go about forming a Right wing mutual protection alliance?

Would you go to a GOP convention and look for the guys grinding their teeth when Lady Maga is lecturing the crowd about how democrats are the real transphobes?

Fuentes needs to tell his followers, "go and meet each other IRL, move in together and act as though your lives depend on that brotherhood, because they do.
I'm not involved into the whole "community" thing, mostly because I already have a place I can go but also because I am in a position where I don't have time. But from what I can gather, the Alt-Right already has real world communities and get together's and their own networking.

What you are suggesting already exists in the USA, because for at least this time, it is still legal to do so. How much longer will that be true I can't say.

And my point is Fuentes and the Groypers need to admit to themselves and their followers that they were wrong and the Alt-Right that they attacked for no legit reason is the truth and to join in. After that they can become part of their real world community.
 

Cortés

Woodpecker
Gold Member
There's always a solution, no matter how unpleasant.

What Fuentes means is that there is no solution which puts him front and center. He's built himself and his fan base around dissident lol-speech and he's correct that there is no solution revolving around dissident lol-speech.
How many times are you gonna flip flop on Nick?

You thought he was childish when he wrote off Owen Benjamin for talking shit about his family. Then you were praising Nick when he was leading the Groyper wars. Now you are saying he is only in this for himself. Just pick a side man.

Anyways, I think you guys are missing the point. He is saying that any sort of attempt to get political power from the dissident right will just hurt us. Protest in the streets peacefully? Police will break up the protest or Feds will stage a murder. Try to organize some sort of political conference? You will be mercilessly slandered as Nazis by the media and will be ostracized from the public. Blow up power lines like Kurt doolitle reccomends? Get arrested by feds and rot in jail for 30 years.

The best thing we can do is prepare to capitalize on a future opportunity. Think about the Groyper wars. Seeing the rhetoric from Charlie Kirk and the daily wire crew have been using during these riots shows that the overton window has shifted, and these traitors can't get away with the talking points they used to use. If you have hundreds of groypers in positions of influence 10 years from now, imagine the ways they can do serious damage when a chance to strike comes up.

As far as him disavowing people to the right of him, it's smart political strategy. Do you really think the average socially conservative person looks at Richard Spencer throwing a Roman salute and wants to be a part of that movement? You might be able to get a handful of wignats to support you but you are alienating yourself from MILLIONS of conservatives who see eye to eye on the majority of the issues, and need to be redpilled softly
 
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